Your thoughts on "barrel break in"?

[Ernie]

I had posted about bopping pdogs at 700 yards with a .223 Rem rifle. Dan Johnson opined that wasn't possible. So the next day I went out and busted 4 out of 4 with 5 shots at 720-725 yards. That ended our conversation. The way I figured it...he could have an opinion or I could have pdogs for lunch.

Mike

When it comes to these kind of opinions, many times the best way to answer is…”Send It!”

[Linefinder]

I had posted about bopping pdogs at 700 yards with a .223 Rem rifle. Dan Johnson opined that wasn't possible. So the next day I went out and busted 4 out of 4 with 5 shots at 720-725 yards. That ended our conversation. The way I figured it...he could have an opinion or I could have pdogs for lunch.

Mike

When it comes to these kind of opinions, many times the best way to answer is…”Send It!”

[jwv2023]

What happens when your first 5 shots go through the same hole? Do you still have to "break-in" the barrel? You do recognize that there is somewhat of a learning curve for the shooter when it comes to shooting a new rifle. I don't believe in breaking in "the barrel". I believe in breaking in the shooter.

[Varmintmist]

What happens when your first 5 shots go through the same hole? Do you still have to "break-in" the barrel? You do recognize that there is somewhat of a learning curve for the shooter when it comes to shooting a new rifle. I don't believe in breaking in "the barrel". I believe in breaking in the shooter.

You have never shot a new, quality cut rifled bbl.

Barrel break in? Just shoot it. It will settle in. w/50 through the Hawk Hill, it looks like its settling down. If the second coming of Noah stops, I might be able to get it out.

[jwv2023]

Wow, you have painted me into a corner on how to respond to your post. I would have to question the statement regarding a "new, quality cut rifled bbl.". Usually, cut rifled barrels are lapped to make the barrel shoot in the first place. Are you saying that your rifle shoots lights out, and you are wanting it to shoot even better?
I have had rifles shoot 1/2", out of the box. I have a .223AI that shot 1/2" while I was fireforming with .223 ammo.
My post was describing my process if there is a problem. I always look to my bench procedure first. Make sure all the problems are worked out with the shooter before I start looking for problems with the rifle.

[Varmintmist]

No, cut rifled barrels are not all lapped.
Your post is assuming, given minimal information, that all bbls are like the ones you have shot. That is not the case.

EG I just had a rifle built by a person who has built world class LR rifles. He told me that it will take about 100 rounds, maybe less to settle in. Since he has built rifles that hold long range records, and I have had to shoot in other bbls, I will go with my gut and say that some need shot in.

[jwv2023]

Varmintmist---- I was not trying to offend you. I am in the camp that doesn't believe in breaking in a barrel. I believe that the biggest variable to accuracy is the shooter. When talking about "breaking in" a barrel, how do you know when to stop? I'm not assuming that all barrels are like the ones I have shot. What I am saying is, if a rifle is not shooting, the first thing I look at is if there is any way I am causing the problem to give me a glimmer of hope that it is not the rifle. That's why the first sentence of my first post on the matter was, "What happens when the first 5 shots go through the same hole"? I realize that it takes some time getting use to a new rifle. I'm not going to blame the rifle until I isolate the problem.

[CPJ 2.0]

Let’s quit abbreviating barrel as bbl.
There’s no reason. Theres no logic. It’s like reading a text message from a teenage girl.

“OMG did U see the new bbl on that gun? It’s 2 die 4!”


Side note, if a cut barrel wasn’t lapped, it’s not finished. Bold statement? Nope.
Cutting metal leaves burrs. No getting around it. It can be minimized, but there will be burrs. Fact of machining. Leaving those burrs is sloppy work. No different than drilling a hole in metal and not deburring it. It’s hack work.

[mitdr774]

Cutting metal leaves burrs. No getting around it. It can be minimized, but there will be burrs. Fact of machining. Leaving those burrs is sloppy work. No different than drilling a hole in metal and not deburring it. It’s hack work.

At work I find that most trades do not file the ends of cut threaded rod or unistrut. It makes for a nice surprise when you have to work around it and end up trying to figure out why your arm/hand is suddenly leaking and there is a small chunk of meat and skin left on a rod or strut.

I have had factory barrels that shot amazing right away and some factory barrels that took some time to settle in. I have had barrels from suppliers that shot amazing right away and some that took some time to settle in. At this point I just shoot them until they seem to need a scrubbing. I have been told that I need to scrub a barrel clean before switching to mono metal bullets after shooting cup and core though.

[Varmintmist]

Varmintmist---- I was not trying to offend you. I am in the camp that doesn't believe in breaking in a barrel. I believe that the biggest variable to accuracy is the shooter. When talking about "breaking in" a barrel, how do you know when to stop? I'm not assuming that all barrels are like the ones I have shot. What I am saying is, if a rifle is not shooting, the first thing I look at is if there is any way I am causing the problem to give me a glimmer of hope that it is not the rifle. That's why the first sentence of my first post on the matter was, "What happens when the first 5 shots go through the same hole"? I realize that it takes some time getting use to a new rifle. I'm not going to blame the rifle until I isolate the problem.

Takes more than that to offend me. However your assumption that you never need to break in a bbl (1)is easily proven wrong, however it doesnt offend me that you want to hold on to that. Its just not factual. Now, that also doesnt mean you have to break in EVERY bbl (2).

How do you know when its broken in? In exactly the opposite way that you know it is worn out. When it performs consistently and accurately.

Listen, If you have brand new bbl (3) of good quality put on your action, it is left "unfinished" so that the user can finish as they see fit. Either through shooting, lapping or juggling chipmunks it gives the shooter the ability to f up his own bbl (4) without the factory assuming that they know best. If the rifle is not shooting when you pick it up unfired, and the gunsmith tells you it will need 100 some rounds through the bbl (5) before it settles down and he knows this because he has the same bbl (6) and has put the same make bbl (7) on rifles that are shot by guys in the top tier, then the odds of one holing with the first load are pretty slim even if you are Dave Tubb with a machine rest and you will have to put some rounds through it.

I dropped a lot on a rifle just a little bit ago and it was near 2.5 MOA for the first 20. Now at about 50 through it it is .94@124 yards. Same rifle, same shooter, who is at least a little bit competent, some different loads. IF it stops raining and I am not going to the honey do list or matches, I can work with it some more.

[Varmintmist]

Let’s quit abbreviating barrel as bbl.
There’s no reason. Theres no logic. It’s like reading a text message from a teenage girl.

“OMG did U see the new bbl on that gun? It’s 2 die 4!”

Its been abbreviated like that for longer than you me or our fathers were even considered. The reason is that that is the abbreviation for barrel by all definitions and the logic is in the link below.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/18636- ... -come-from

[Ernie]

Can we say all barrels are different, even if by a little bit?
Breaking in probably has different definitions (it means something different) to different people.
The throat area, where a reamer has done some cutting may need time to smooth out or you may smooth it out.
Some barrels will speed up after about 50-100 rounds through it...Others won't.
Those that do speed up and or settle down...There are some changes taking place
If it is changing, it is going to change the tuning of it.
Some people definitions of accuracy will be worlds apart.
Or, some people are not good enough (loading and shooting techniques) or the rifle build is not good enough to know even if there was a small difference.
Even with lapping, I am not going to suggest all barrels are lapped exactly the same way, even from the same company.
Some cartridges are easier to tune and stay in tune than others...
If you are good enough to know, all of the above, you will pay attention to what your barrel, and all of other variables are telling you or not telling, and change or not change what you are doing.
Plus, you have new brass that is not fireformed versus brass that the shoulder has been fully formed (More than one firing).
Are you over sizing or over working your brass?
Do you anneal after every firing?
The precision rabbit hole can go quite deep, if you want to...It all depends on what you want to accomplish and what you are capable of accomplishing.
For the many, it won't matter much at all

Have Fun!
Go shoot and let the target tell you what is going on!

[CPJ 2.0]

Let’s quit abbreviating barrel as bbl.
There’s no reason. Theres no logic. It’s like reading a text message from a teenage girl.

“OMG did U see the new bbl on that gun? It’s 2 die 4!”

Its been abbreviated like that for longer than you me or our fathers were even considered. The reason is that that is the abbreviation for barrel by all definitions and the logic is in the link below.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/18636- ... -come-from

Well, that’s neat, if we were referring to a barrel of oil, cheese, feces, etc.
But we aren’t. A rifled tube isn’t a container for dry goods or liquids. Probably should go back to the origins of the English language and beat whoever called a container a barrel and a rifled tube a barrel.
I stand by the assessment, BBL is a dumb abbreviation.

[CPJ 2.0]

The notion a barrel needs shot in, I’ll accept mostly.
The notion that you’ll fudge up a barrel by not performing the juggling squirrels while covered in bacon grease or whatever horse poop someone tells you, not a chance.
AND EVEN IF IT DOES….
You can’t prove it either way.

[jwv2023]

"..... it was near 2.5 MOA for the first 20. Now at about 50 through it it is .94@124 yards. Same rifle, same shooter, who is at least a little bit competent, some different loads."

So, how does this statement equate to barrel break in? I would say this is merely you becoming familiar with the rifle. Like I said earlier, there is a learning curve to shooting a new rifle. I would attribute this to gaining experience with a new rifle e.g. what it is in your bench technique that the rifle likes. Some rifles have idiosyncrasies that have to identified and overcome. If you want to call that barrel break in, so be it.

[Varmintmist]

Let’s quit abbreviating barrel as bbl.
There’s no reason. Theres no logic. It’s like reading a text message from a teenage girl.

“OMG did U see the new bbl on that gun? It’s 2 die 4!”

Its been abbreviated like that for longer than you me or our fathers were even considered. The reason is that that is the abbreviation for barrel by all definitions and the logic is in the link below.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/18636- ... -come-from

Well, that’s neat, if we were referring to a barrel of oil, cheese, feces, etc.
But we aren’t. A rifled tube isn’t a container for dry goods or liquids. Probably should go back to the origins of the English language and beat whoever called a container a barrel and a rifled tube a barrel.
I stand by the assessment, BBL is a dumb abbreviation.

barrel. Same word same abbreviation. You might not like it, but it is what it is.
def 3a
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/barrel
Def 2
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictio ... ish/barrel
def 5
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/barrel

[Varmintmist]

"..... it was near 2.5 MOA for the first 20. Now at about 50 through it it is .94@124 yards. Same rifle, same shooter, who is at least a little bit competent, some different loads."

So, how does this statement equate to barrel break in? I would say this is merely you becoming familiar with the rifle. Like I said earlier, there is a learning curve to shooting a new rifle. I would attribute this to gaining experience with a new rifle e.g. what it is in your bench technique that the rifle likes. Some rifles have idiosyncrasies that have to identified and overcome. If you want to call that barrel break in, so be it.

The statement equates to barrel break in because the barrel is breaking in.
And you would be wrong.
If I had just fallen off the turnip truck and cant shoot a iron sighted rifle MOA off a bench, maybe.
If the guy who built the gun didnt say it will take about 100 to settle.
If the company who made the bbl didnt list on their web page the technique for bbl break in that they recommend.
If it wasnt common for cut rifled bbls,
then, and only then, you might have a point.
You can believe whatever you want to. These days you can believe you are a cat, no skin off me. You have at least 3 shooters who have replied to the thread who are pretty fair shots and have put a couple rounds down range in their lifetimes who are saying it is a thing. From experience. So you do you.

[jwv2023]

Every point you have attempted is anecdotal. You can't prove anything with measurements or hard data. Hearsay is hearsay.
Once again I say, if the first 5 rounds go through the same hole, do you still have to break in the barrel?
You just want to be offended.

[GrapeApe]

"Break-in" happens regardless of if you're trying to break it in or not.
It's also known as "WEAR"

That mythical bbl that puts the first 5 through the same hole isn't the same bbl after that group than it was before. All bbls have a life expectancy, every round fired through it uses a bit of it.

[Jay]

Let’s quit abbreviating barrel as bbl.
There’s no reason. Theres no logic. It’s like reading a text message from a teenage girl.

“OMG did U see the new bbl on that gun? It’s 2 die 4!”

Its been abbreviated like that for longer than you me or our fathers were even considered. The reason is that that is the abbreviation for barrel by all definitions and the logic is in the link below.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/18636- ... -come-from

Well, that’s neat, if we were referring to a barrel of oil, cheese, feces, etc.
But we aren’t. A rifled tube isn’t a container for dry goods or liquids. Probably should go back to the origins of the English language and beat whoever called a container a barrel and a rifled tube a barrel.
I stand by the assessment, BBL is a dumb abbreviation.

I do tend to agree with CPJ on that abbreviation. Pretty sure it’s annoyed people since forums became a thing. The same kind of conversations took place on hot rod forums 20 years ago when people used the abbreviation describing carburetors.

I think, for those of us who don’t want to use the abbreviation, we should refer to them as babbles. Since that’s what the abbreviation says. “My Howa in 6ARC has a 20” babble.”

[Freezer]

WOW! Some folks get annoyed easily and others just have a rectal cranial inversion.

This post has provided some good humor

[CPJ 2.0]

Its been abbreviated like that for longer than you me or our fathers were even considered. The reason is that that is the abbreviation for barrel by all definitions and the logic is in the link below.
https://seekingalpha.com/article/18636- ... -come-from

Well, that’s neat, if we were referring to a barrel of oil, cheese, feces, etc.
But we aren’t. A rifled tube isn’t a container for dry goods or liquids. Probably should go back to the origins of the English language and beat whoever called a container a barrel and a rifled tube a barrel.
I stand by the assessment, BBL is a dumb abbreviation.

I do tend to agree with CPJ on that abbreviation. Pretty sure it’s annoyed people since forums became a thing. The same kind of conversations took place on hot rod forums 20 years ago when people used the abbreviation describing carburetors.

I think, for those of us who don’t want to use the abbreviation, we should refer to them as babbles. Since that’s what the abbreviation says. “My Howa in 6ARC has a 20” babble.”

It makes as much sense to use BBC.

“I have a 12” BBC”

[Freezer]

British Broadcast Company?

[CPJ 2.0]

British Broadcast Company?

Google what BBC stands for. Easier than me explaining.

[Freezer]

OOPs, British Broadcasting Corporation