Two stage trigger

[Gene L]

Reading the post about trigger adjustment got me thinking about a couple of trigger issues. First is a two stage trigger, which I like. Early Winchesters pre-cursor 70 (I think it was the 54) had an excellent two stage trigger. I miss that rifle which I traded off too cheap. Second is my Winchester 43, which has a strong trigger on it. It's heavy but breaks clean. Not two stage which would have made it more live able. Probably 6 pounds. I can shoot around it, and I'm informed that the trigger adjustment on the 43 is problematic, so I guess I'm obliged to work around it. VERY clean break

[Wambli Ska]

Some folks are trigger snobs, others are not. I like light clean triggers but have learned to live with many guns that don't have one of those for a myriad of reasons. Some because they are collectibles so I won't mess with them, others because it's just not worth it to sweat that small of a detail out like many of my old .22s that I love. When trying to squeeze the absolute best precision possible out of a gun, the decision is a no-brainer. But for a can hole puncher, who cares. And I'm also fine with two stage triggers, they serve a purpose on some guns.

[jwv2023]

..... I'm also fine with two stage triggers, they serve a purpose on some guns.

In my whole life, I have never understood the purpose of a two stage trigger. Of course, I have used them from time to time, and they can be overcome. That said, I don't get the why of a two stage trigger. It's like an Accu-trigger. You have to take up the slack to get to the crappy trigger.

[Freezer]

The trigger on the Argentine is light, there is a very small amount of take-up that I like, it gives me a little...wiggle room before I touch off the rifle. My other two rifles don't have a trigger this light and are very clean for what they are, a 99 Savage that had its trigger tuned up, and a Rem 700 with a Timney pro hunter. The savage is a walking gun, the Remington is for sitting and the Argentine is a distance rifle that weighs about 11 lbs.

[Varmintmist]

I love 2 stage triggers. Draw to the wall and then break it. The RRA 2 stage that came on my match rifle was about 4.8. around 2 then a break on 3. The Geissele is fantastic, and it came with a learning curve. It is a backwards 2 stage stage 1 is 3+ then it breaks at 1.8. Wonderful trigger but getting the whole hard/light in my brain cost a few flyers. Service rifle requires 4.5 min trigger weight, you get a good trigger at the required weight.

The Timmney on the 6.5 is 3 breaking on one.

The reason for a 2 stage is that when it hits the wall, you know what is happening. There is no continuous movement, hit the wall, then its go time.

I'm not a trigger snob, I am a trigger enthusiast in the same way I am a whisky enthusiast. I can drink pretty much anything, but prefer a good one that can be neat.

[Bigslug]

..... I'm also fine with two stage triggers, they serve a purpose on some guns.

In my whole life, I have never understood the purpose of a two stage trigger. Of course, I have used them from time to time, and they can be overcome. That said, I don't get the why of a two stage trigger. It's like an Accu-trigger. You have to take up the slack to get to the crappy trigger.

The "why" of a 2-stage trigger: Imagine having to run the rifle when sleep-deprived, with cold, numb hands, and a quart of fresh adrenaline coursing through your veins. The first stage is to give you the hint that you're on the thing, and you continue through the second as rapidly or deliberately as required. No penalties from a marksmanship standpoint, and very helpful for rapid fire.

The best process I've found for "fixing" your rifle triggers:

1. Buy a quality double action revolver like a Ruger GP-100 or S&W 686 and a case of .38 ammo. If that's too spendy, get one in .22

2. Forget that the gun even has a single action setting.

3. Set a bunch of plastic water bottles at 25 yards and put the work in.

4. When you get to where 25 yards is becoming boring and it takes 50-100 yards to make it interesting, you will find that all of your rifle triggers have been miraculously "upgraded", and you're no longer a trigger snob.

Easier and cheaper to tighten up the nut behind the trigger than it is to gut every single rifle in your safe, let alone the world.

[CPJ 2.0]

..... I'm also fine with two stage triggers, they serve a purpose on some guns.

In my whole life, I have never understood the purpose of a two stage trigger. Of course, I have used them from time to time, and they can be overcome. That said, I don't get the why of a two stage trigger. It's like an Accu-trigger. You have to take up the slack to get to the crappy trigger.

The "why" of a 2-stage trigger: Imagine having to run the rifle when sleep-deprived, with cold, numb hands, and a quart of fresh adrenaline coursing through your veins. The first stage is to give you the hint that you're on the thing, and you continue through the second as rapidly or deliberately as required. No penalties from a marksmanship standpoint, and very helpful for rapid fire.

The best process I've found for "fixing" your rifle triggers:

1. Buy a quality double action revolver like a Ruger GP-100 or S&W 686 and a case of .38 ammo. If that's too spendy, get one in .22

2. Forget that the gun even has a single action setting.

3. Set a bunch of plastic water bottles at 25 yards and put the work in.

4. When you get to where 25 yards is becoming boring and it takes 50-100 yards to make it interesting, you will find that all of your rifle triggers have been miraculously "upgraded", and you're no longer a trigger snob.

Easier and cheaper to tighten up the nut behind the trigger than it is to gut every single rifle in your safe, let alone the world.

I agree. Spend $1000 plus on a revolver another 500 on ammunition. Because spending 150 on a trigger is just silliness. :sarcasm:
Trigger snob till the day I die. A good marksman can shoot around the poor trigger, but a smart marksman replaces it.

[Gene L]

Sometimes there isn't a replacement for a heavy trigger. I have to shoot around it, which takes concentration in the entire unit; trigger, sights, target.

[jwv2023]

With all due respect, I still don't have an answer to the "why" of a two-stage trigger. Bigslug, you seem to be describing a combat situation. OK, maybe, so you don't get an accidental discharge. But when the s**t hits the fan, I don't think the two stage trigger is going to make any kind of difference.
Varmintmist-- I understand the two stage if you're dealing with the constraints of competition. You have to follow the rules, after all. I also find it interesting that you used the term "learning curve" in your explanation.
And finally, GeneL, we're not talking necessarily about a heavy trigger but a two-stage trigger. You would always have to concentrate on the trigger, sights, and target. Some judicious stoning and polishing, maybe a spring, can fix a heavy trigger.
I don't think I'm a trigger snob but, right now, I'm dealing with a new rifle that has a 3-4# trigger. All of my rifles have 20-24 oz. pulls. Shooting this new rifle feels like I'm constantly dealing with hangfires. Very disconcerting. I'm in the process of getting the trigger to 24 oz. as I write this.

[Gene L]

I wish stoning and polishing my 43 trigger would lighten it up, but it won't. It's known for trigger problems that can't be ironed out and no one I've been able to find has a replacement. I know we're talking about a two-stage trigger, I'm the OP. Mine is a one stage trigger that I wish was two stage.

[Freezer]

It's been over 90 degrees and humid this weekend, so I've been inside tinkering around in the gun safe. This subject came to mind, so I pulled my three hunting rifles out of the safe and tested the triggers with a Wheeler digital trigger gauge. First was the Savage 99f chambered in 308, this was a salvage job I bought over 20 years ago, circa 1957, and is my carry rifle. A friend disassembled the action, cleaned and polished the trigger, there's no take-up, a small amount of creep and about an 1/8" of over travel. It breaks at 3 lb 4oz, not bad for a lever action woods gun. It wears a 2x7 Leupold VXII and my intended range for this rifle is 0 to 300 yards. The second is a Remington 700 chambered in 280 Remington. This rifle had seen some hard hunts, but the previous owner had it bedded, and the trigger adjusted well. Alas, it is a Remington and the trigger went bad, it now sports a Timney pro-hunter that has no take-up, no creep and no over travel. The trigger breaks at 2lb 4 oz. Weighing in at close to 8 lbs, it is my sitting rifle. It wears a 4x12 Leupold VXII and my intended range is 100 to 450 yards. The last is the Argentine, since I was a kid I wanted a custom Mauser. Since two of my three niches were filled, I made it a dedicated distance rifle. It has a 26" Shilin match light varmint barrel, Boyd's At-One stock and a 4.5x16 Leupold VXL. At 11 lbs, I won't be carrying this rifle for long distances. My original intention was to shoot 400 to 600 yards across a dry lake bed at Lake Shasta, California, things change. This rifle has a Basix trigger adapted from a Weatherby/Hawa style and modified to use a thumb tang safety, which I really like. The action is bedded and barrel floated. The trigger has an 1/8" take-up, (two stage) which I like on this rifle, no creep and no over travel. The trigger breaks at 1lb 13oz. You settle in, touch the trigger, and it comes to the wall, light pressure then bang.

Three rifles, three different triggers, all well suited for the rifle's intended purpose.

The two revolvers I settled on, Ruger Security 6 and S&W Mountain Gun, have Wolff springs to improve their triggers.

My next project is a Marlin 980 DL. The trigger weighed in at over 6lbs7 oz. I have new springs for it and after some new parts. A little polish and I hope to have it at 3lbs.

Trigger snob? No. I just like my trigger to fit the use of the gun.

[Gene L]

I like a deuce trigger because it allows you to "stage" the trigger release. If you've got a good trigger, it acts kind of like a set trigger. That's just me, ymmv.

[Varmintmist]

With all due respect, I still don't have an answer to the "why" of a two-stage trigger. Bigslug, you seem to be describing a combat situation. OK, maybe, so you don't get an accidental discharge. But when the s**t hits the fan, I don't think the two stage trigger is going to make any kind of difference.
Varmintmist-- I understand the two stage if you're dealing with the constraints of competition. You have to follow the rules, after all. I also find it interesting that you used the term "learning curve" in your explanation.
And finally, GeneL, we're not talking necessarily about a heavy trigger but a two-stage trigger. You would always have to concentrate on the trigger, sights, and target. Some judicious stoning and polishing, maybe a spring, can fix a heavy trigger.
I don't think I'm a trigger snob but, right now, I'm dealing with a new rifle that has a 3-4# trigger. All of my rifles have 20-24 oz. pulls. Shooting this new rifle feels like I'm constantly dealing with hangfires. Very disconcerting. I'm in the process of getting the trigger to 24 oz. as I write this.

Learning curve for the Gieselle, regular two stage are intuitive.