.257 Scooter - Something Old...

[Wambli Ska]

I'm cleaning out old computer files and found this. The official final draft for the article G&A Online published on the .257 Scooter written by me with encouragement and experienced editing by non other than Dan and Scott. It was one of the highlights of my life as a Forums member and I thought you guys would enjoy a walk down memory lane and a little of the old forum history in the new home. The original Article has been deleted by G&A website, Dan and Mike are gone but hope this copy will get to live here for a while. NOTE: ignore typos, this came from a PDF and I tried to clean up the "translation errors" but I might not have caught all. I have the pictures somewhere so I'll try to find them and post. Hope you enjoy the ride on memory lane.

The .257 Scooter

A one of kind rifle with a one of a kind story.

Only in the age of the Internet can three men who have never met each other face-to-face forge a friendship born and nurtured in an online forum dealing in a common passion, firearms. In order to tell this story I should start by introducing the main characters, all members of the Guns and Ammo Magazine forums and right here, in our little corner in cyberspace, is where we all met.

First and foremost we have Mike Hennessey (Forum name is “Scootertrash”). Mike is a competitive shooter out of Colorado and he is one of our in-house ballistics and precision rifle experts. Mike has probably forgotten more about reloading and accuracy shooting than most of us will ever know. When Mike talks guns and ammuniJon he throws around dimensions in thousands of an inch like most folks talk about the weather. I’m convinced his computer is scared of him as his fellow competitors certainly are.

Next we have Jerry Herbison (Forum name is “Teach”), a recently retired school teacher from Tennessee who’s hobby is building rifles for himself and friends. Jerry could give a lot of folks that build guns for a living a few lessons on their trade and he is also one of our resident experts. If you need gunsmithing or Mauser advice Jerry is the guy. One thing I like about Jerry is that he chooses to keep his fun as fun so he builds guns only for folks he likes. Imagine that...

The last guy on this team is the author of this article. I’m just your average gun nut and hunter fortunate enough to have found this place where I met these two great individuals who let me tag along on this adventure.

It all started in late April or May of 2010 when in one of our casual online forum threads the topic somehow got on to potentially cool wildcats that would be easy to shoot and not be barrel burners. Mike mentions that he has been thinking a lot about a .25 caliber on a .204 case for a rifle build because there are a lot of inherent good characterisJcs to the combination that should make it a winner. The original thread was about building ultra precision rifles to shoot at 100 yard competition. Now this cartridge is not a new concept. I believe some folks out in cyberspace have reported playing with this combination and for a while Kimber even had a similar commercial chambering called the .257 Kimber, which was introduced in the Model 84 in 1986. The Kimber round was based on a .222 Magnum case with the body taper reduced and the shoulder pushed forward. This is what Ruger did to the case to increase powder capacity for the .204 Ruger, only Ruger uses a 30-degree shoulder on the .204 where Kimber used a 40-degree shoulder on the .257 Kimber. By simply necking up a .204 case to .25 caliber without modifying the body fireforming is not required as it was with the .257 Kimber. In any case we decided to explore the numbers a little bit more in depth and Mike got to work on his ballistics programs.

I’m a lover of light rifles and if you look at my hunting battery you will find jewels like my 7.5 lb .300 WinMag and my new 7.4 lb .35 Whelen. My reasoning is that while hunting I don’t want to drag around one extra ounce over hill and dale only to squeeze hopefully just one shot at my prey. Some call it lazy. I prefer to think I’m being frugal with my personal energy supply.

During our first conversation I told Mike I loved his concept but was wondering if it could be adapted to my purpose. If we could push a .25 caliber hunting bullet built for deer size game to a reasonable speed so I could take deer out to let’s say 250 yards or so I would love to have a nice light rifle built for it. I thought it would be great to base the gun on the Remington 799 Mini Mauser which at that time the company was in the process of discontinuing so there were plenty available at a very reasonable cost. If I could find one in .223 or .204 I assumed a simple barrel change and a reamer would have me in business.

Intrigued by my request and ever willing to help a friend, more number crunching by Mike showed that at least in theory we could drive a 100 grain SP hunting bullet to about 2,700 fps out of a 22” barrel and the best news was that the software indicated it will be a very efficient cartridge!!! Well who am I to argue against bits and bytes and the genius driving them. In deference to my ineptitude as a handloader newbie, Mike was kind enough to design this cartridge so there are no modifications to the parent case except for necking up the case to accept a .25 caliber bullet. Mike loaded a dummy round for me and sent it to me for inspection. My first thought was “This thing is tiny and just flat out pretty!”.

One of the first rounds of ammo Jerry assembled with a 100 grain Sierra SP standing next to the parent .204 cartridge. (picture in folder)

Now normally I would launch into a long period of study, pondering and research before pouring money into a project such as this. But two things made me take an immediate leap. One, Mike said it would work and if he thought it was a good idea I was firmly convinced that the project would be a success. Two and most important, Mike had shared with us on a thread in our Forum that he had been diagnosed with inoperable cancer and that his hopes at this point was for at least a “good summer”. So there was no time to waste. This project needed to happen ASAP.

I immediately called Jerry to see if he was interested in being the builder for the project. Jerry was intrigued as he saw the potential for the round and rifle so he readily agreed to take on the challenge to build this .25 caliber rifle for me. His trust in Mike is as full as my own, which is good since he is the one risking his bacon doing the load development on our little pet. We agree that this gun is priority #1 for us and Jerry refuses to take any compensation for his time and expertise, all I had to do was buy the parts, reamer and supplies and he’d do the rest. He just wanted to see this rifle come to life as badly as I.

Of course, as we do so oeen, we involved the whole brotherhood of the G&A Forum regulars on the project and as we let Jerry and Mike sort out the technical details of the cartridge the rest of the unruly mob got on with the ever so important task of naming this G&A forum creation. The names flew on and off the list until one of the forums members (Forum name “CPJ”) suggested .257 Scooter! And there it was, perfection in a name. So from that moment on the .257 Scooter project was officially born in the G&A Forums and in our minds it was the perfect tribute to our good friend Mike!
The next few weeks were a flurry of activity. I found a brand new in the box Remington 799 in .223 on Gunbroker selling for a very reasonable price and not wanting to waste any time bought the gun for the “Buy It Now” price and had it shipped directly to Jerry. Jerry took the brand new gun and never even test fired it. It immediately became a pile of parts.

I then ordered a Shilen #1 contour .25 cal 22” barrel blank and a can of Cerama-Coat from Midway USA because I wanted the metal matte black so it would look all business. Jerry has used this bake-on coating with great success in many of his builds and he likes it not just for the look it gives the metal but also for its corrosion resistance and toughness. The factory trigger was not exactly what we wanted. It was heavy, gritty and creepy. Rather than spend the time trying to fix what we had Jerry found a Timney trigger for the 799 but there was a snag. This trigger did not have a safety so more research ensued and Jerry struck gold again.

The Timney Trigger (picture in folder)
The Gentry Customs Safety (picture in folder)

Gentry Custom, LLC (www.gentrycustom.com) makes a three position Model 70 style safety for the Mini Mauser. A quick call to Gentry and a credit card number and the safety was on its way to Jerry who quickly fitted the new trigger and safety to the 799 action.
While the parts for the gun were accumulating in Tennessee, Mike continued to hold my hand (via phone and email) reassuring me that his calculations are good and that in the age of computer modeling we are no longer building blind. I have never in my life been the kind to lay blind trust on anyone but being well acquainted with his wealth of knowledge he so kindly and freely shares in our Forums I just knew all along that he would be right on the money with his calculations and that this cartridge was going to be something special. So blindly I went on funding this project based on sheer trust on a man I’ve never even stood in front of.

After several more conversations between Jerry and Mike and more tiny little numbers way right of a decimal point that flew well above my head, Mike delivered the technical drawing with the specs on the cartridge so we could have a reamer custom made. Jerry immediately sent the drawings to Dave Manson at Manson Precision Reamers (www.mansonreamers.com) explaining the urgency for this project and afer a few tweaking sessions between Mike, Jerry and Dave in a few weeks UPS delivered to Jerry one of Dave’s world class custom reamers. The .257 Scooter cartridge was now real.

When all the parts were in his possession Jerry started the build. That’s when we met our first Gremlin. In order to set the bullets out far enough to get the powder capacity we needed the overall cartridge length of the Scooter was .250” longer that the magazine length in the 799. Jerry takes this in stride and he assured me this is not his first Jme doing surgery to a magazine box for a special project. He then proceeded to lengthen the magazine and the bolt throw in the 799 to accommodate the extra length and using dummy cartridges, adjusted the feed lips so we have 100% reliable feeding.

While the build was progressing Mike was still tweaking loads and running all sorts of software to make sure that when we are ready to play with the stuff that goes bang we have no mishaps and little guesswork. He is unwilling to let any aspect of this go to chance, so he covers all the bases from every angle his computer and vast knowledge will let him explore.

When the project advanced to the point Jerry was ready to do some load development, the rifle was topped off with a brand new Leupold 3-9x40 kindly donated to the project by another Forum family member from New Zealand (Forum name “orchidman”) who while on a short visit to the USA decided he wants to generously make a contribution to help the project along. It is amazing the enthusiasm this project generated in the Forums every time Jerry posted an update to the build and the crowd cheered us along every step of the way.

As with any wildcat, Jerry started load development conservatively and we were getting promising results but when we start geong within range of our goal velocity (2700+ fps) the second Gremlin showed its ugly little head. Pierced primers!!!

At that point I have to admit I got a little disheartened. After all this time and money were we going to have to stop short of the touchdown line with just a few yards to go? The outcome was good enough for the stated goal but the numbers were oh so close. Well no way Mike was going to let that happen. He and Jerry threw themselves at the problem until they figured out the reason. The firing pin diameter was too big and the firing pin hole was just too generously open allowing the gases from our high intensity little round to blow out the path of least resistance.

So Mike came once again to the rescue. He figured we needed to send the bolt to Greg at Gre-Tan Rifles (www.gretanrifles.com) to install a bolt face bushing and slim down the firing pin. This is a modification normally done to target rifles when they exhibit this problem and one that Mike is intimately aware of. The science behind this eludes me (it’s all explained in Greg’s website) but the effect was that it swiftly eliminated our problem and we can now load to our goal.

Greg performed the modificaJon and had the bolt swiftly back to us so we could get back to load development. Jerry pillar bedded the action to the stock so we can squeeze the best performance out of this rifle and it does not disappoint. The rifle is a shooter and we are now getting the 100 grain bullets traveling at 2750 to a hair over 2800 just as Mike had predicted.

With the rifle mechanically done and Jerry moved on to the cosmetics. The Cerama-Coat was applied and Jerry, being ever the perfecJonist, was just not happy with the factory stock finish so he striped the stock and added a beautiful rosewood forend tip to it. He also reshaped it to a slightly flatter bottom to make it a little more bench friendly. Then he gave the stock a beautiful oil finish to complete the project.

The .257 Scooter finished rifle. (picture in folder)

So how does the rifle shoot? See for yourself. Now remember we are talking about a sub 7 lb rifle with a pencil thin ultralight barrel profile, not a bench gun. The purpose of this gun is to put one, maybe two (if ever needed) accurate holes on a deer or a coyote at no more than a few hundred yards and that it can do very well. Load development is really just starting on this rifle and we all feel that the best is yet to come but for now this gun is ready for field trials.

The first 200 yard target ever shot with the .257 Scooter by Jerry. The top hole by the pasty is a called flier. (picture in folder)

The ending of this story is a goal perfectly attained. At my request, Jerry took the little rifle out at the very end of Tennessee’s rifle season and the gun and cartridge did the job they were specifically designed to do splendidly.

Jerry and the Scooter doing what it does best. Venison for the freezer. (picture in the folder)

The pictures of the hunt were posted on the Forum for all to see, and an entire cyber family of friends cheered an adventure that was shared by friends around the globe without ever leaving their keyboards. I’m lucky enough to have a fair collection of firearms but none can ever occupy the special place in my heart or have anywhere near as interesting a story behind it as the little .257 Scooter. The barrel is stamped with the Scooter name in Mike’s honor. And as long as I’m alive this cartridge and rifle will tell the story of the best friend I’ve never met.

So that’s the story of how three men met in cyber space, became friends, forged brotherly bonds, learned a lot from one another and created a great little rifle called the .257 Scooter! Proof that real friendships, trust and accomplishments can transcend the old models of human contact. Mike has been an inspiraJon to all of us and I don’t know if he understands what he’s meant to me personally. Words seem too cumbersome in trying to convey how I feel.

I have met very few people in my life that in facing adversity have handled themselves with such grace and have given so generously of their time. There is not a day that goes by that I don’t ask the Lord for a miracle and as of this writing Mike is still with us though posting less and less as the days go by. I look forward to every key stroke of his and rejoice every time I see a post or a new thread pop up from my friend Scootertrash. I am grateful for him, the time he took to share his incredible gift with us, his friendship and the life lessons he has taught me that I will carry the rest of my life.

Some of the threads on the scooter:
Wheels turning:
httpp://forums.gunsandammo.com/forum/general-shooJng-information/wambli-has-my-wheels-turning
Jerry geong started:
http://forums.gunsandammo.com/forum/gen ... ng-started
Talk about magazine length:
http://forums.gunsandammo.com/forum/gen ... ering-257- scooter-progress
Scooter Update:
http://forums.gunsandammo.com/forum/gen ... ter-update
Finished Rifle:
http://forums.gunsandammo.com/forum/gen ... lan-comes- together

First time it was tested for accuracy
http://forums.gunsandammo.com/forum/gen ... nge-report
Pierced Primers:
http://forums.gunsandammo.com/forum/gen ... watch-out- big-trucks
Dancing on the Razor’s Edge:
http://forums.gunsandammo.com/forum/gen ... azors-edge
Scooter Scores:
http://forums.gunsandammo.com/forum/hun ... ter-scores

[mitdr774]

Interesting read.

[Wambli Ska]

A short glimpse into the good ol' times of the Forum.

[Big Al1]

That was quite the project!! I remember when Teach handed it off to you at one of the shoots!! The never ending smile!!

[Diver43]

Any chance you have a photo or three?

[Wambli Ska]

200 yard first group, top right called flier

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Gentry 3 position safety

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.257 Scooter between parent case and cartridge

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Top rifle is the finished Scooter.

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Timney trigger

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Teach with first kill at 125 yards IIRC

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Found them

[Diver43]

Awesome!!!
During that timeframe the forum was blocked at work. The first thing I did when getting home was log in and look for an update.

[rberg]

Thank you for letting us read this story again.

[Wambli Ska]

Glad you guys enjoyed it.

[Linefinder]

Scooter was a close friend of mine. He passed on 14 Feb, 2011. He was an engineering Tech where I work as a machinist now. Hardly a week goes by that I don't curse him for his .0001" tolerances.

Mike












'

[Wambli Ska]

Scooter was a close friend of mine. He passed on 14 Feb, 2011. He was an engineering Tech where I work as a machinist now. Hardly a week goes by that I don't curse him for his .0001" tolerances.

Mike












'

I remember getting the drawing of the specs for the cartridge and my head starting to spin…

[Linefinder]

Scooter and I met on line (G&A Forum) when I still lived in Louisiana. After I moved to Colorado and had thumped a few thousand pdogs Scooter asked if he could tag along. I said "Sure...what you got?". He said a 25/06. I told him that wasn't a great idea. He showed up with a brand new .204 Ruger. He was that kind of guy.

God.....I miss him.

Mike

[Elk Creek]

Very cool old thread! Thanks. Great to get to read that again.

[Orchidman]

Scooter and I met on line (G&A Forum) when I still lived in Louisiana. After I moved to Colorado and had thumped a few thousand pdogs Scooter asked if he could tag along. I said "Sure...what you got?". He said a 25/06. I told him that wasn't a great idea. He showed up with a brand new .204 Ruger. He was that kind of guy.

God.....I miss him.

Mike

He was the motivation for me getting interested in the 204......Both his and your threads/posts about its performance sealed the deal.

[Wambli Ska]

Scooter and I met on line (G&A Forum) when I still lived in Louisiana. After I moved to Colorado and had thumped a few thousand pdogs Scooter asked if he could tag along. I said "Sure...what you got?". He said a 25/06. I told him that wasn't a great idea. He showed up with a brand new .204 Ruger. He was that kind of guy.

God.....I miss him.

Mike

He was the motivation for me getting interested in the 204......Both his and your threads/posts about its performance sealed the deal.

Your Leupold is on the rifle honoring him

[GrapeApe]

The darker 799 in that picture is my 6.5 Grendel