an idea for a new woods gun

[Freezer]

I used to love still hunting in the Cascade mountains of Northern Ca. The weather was great, the hills steep and quiet and I wouldn't see another hunter for days. Times have changed, I now live in western Pa, I'm almost 68, have two steel knees and multiple places on my body that hurt. This last rifle season I didn't spend all my time in the luxury of the heated blinds though temperatures hovered at 20 degrees. I dawned my back pack, slung my 99 over my shoulder and took some long walks. It felt so good and natural to still hunt again and I jumped the second biggest buck of my life. His butt was bigger than my wife's

I learned a lot about my new limitations and what gear I need. First I need to hunt where and when I can get help. I can't be in the woods alone anymore and I'm in no shape for a long drag even with a sled and drag harness. I got three deer this year, field dressing is a pain in the butt, literally! My back would let me straddle the deer and I can't kneel. I have to sit next to the critter to field dress it. My beloved day pack has become a burden and I don't need the things I used to carry. A fanny pack will be more handy and interfere less with my rifle sling. I may want to experiment with no pack at all and rely more on the abundant pockets in my coat. I need my walking stick. I have a walking stick with a "Y" on top as a rifle rest and it sure helps on the rough terrain but, it hinders my ability to carry the 99 well or in a ready position. My knee replacements have left me with a lot of numbness, lack of sensory reaction and fine muscle control. While teaching my great nephew how to still hunt, a hidden rock and branch caused me to fall twice. I learned not to fight the falls but to control them so I don't get hurt, but I need the walking stick in the woods for balance and steep terrain.

I love my blue metal and wood stock guns. My Savage 99 has been my go to gun for 25 years and my Remington 700 spends it's time in the field when needed. I have come to the conclusion that it may be time for a change. I've been speaking with my nephew, whose belief is, "If it's not an AR, it's antiquated." has me considering a new rifle to fit my needs. The conversation started months ago with the thought of a straight pull bolt action AR, but they have too many draw backs. Then this month Buffalo Creek came out with a true bolt action AR. I'm not interested in their heavy barrel of chamberings in 350 and 400 Legend but..... As our discussion continued something took shape. A bolt action AR upper with a thin ER Shaw 16" barrel chambered in 6.5 Grindel, composite lower and fire control system would weigh just over 4 lbs with a scope, no buffer system needed. With a tactical sling I would have a light, mild recoiling rifle hanging hands free on my chest at the ready. In this configuration the Grindel is a 150 yard cartridge, my longest blind shot is 250 yards. If I use a longer barrel it might snag on the brush.

Then the conversation took another turn, could you build it as a bolt action bullpup? He has already built a bolt action bullpup in 8.6 blackout with a heavy barrel, it weighs about 7 .5 pounds and is a beast. With a suppressor it is 4" shorter than my 99. A concept rifle began to form... A composite lower, Buffalo Creek bolt action upper with a thin 18" Shaw 6.5 Grindel barrel and a bull pup stock? The OAL would be 26" and 3.9 pounds without a scope! A 20 inch barrel wouldn't weigh much more and make it a true 250 yard cartridge. A light 1.5 x 5 scout scope or 2x7 and it will be about 4 pounds 4 ounces and OAL of 28 inches! My hands would be free for balance and my walking stick.

I love my wood and blue steel guns. I'm a simple man who only utilizes the technology I need. I don't care for plastic guns and gadgets but this has me thinking. I may need this rifle! If they made an AR 10 bolt action platform what a mountain gun it could be!

https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/catalo ... tion+upper

https://www.sru-precision.com/sarb-15

Your thoughts please

[CPJ 2.0]

Guns aside, you need this. Gut while standing upright.

[GrapeApe]

Only thing I disagree with, is your statement, "In this configuration the Grindel is a 150 yard cartridge...".

I had a Rem 799 7.62x39 rebarreled to 6.5 Grendel with either an 18 or 20" Shilen #1 contour 8T barrel. With 123gr Hornady SST, ELD-M, or Amax bullets, I feel it's a legitimate 250-300 yard deer rifle

[Elk Creek]

That’s rough! That said a Howa mini action in 6ARC is stupid light….

[Freezer]

Guns aside, you need this. Gut while standing upright.

I built one 25 years ago from breakaway sign post metal. It breaks down into 4 pieces and I used an extend a step to mount a small ATV winch. If there's an ATV near, I have a small hitch to large hitch adapter so I can use that for gutting, skinning and quartering. Alas I still need to get it close enough to a serviceable trail to use it. In Northern California there weren't any butchers. I hunted two miles in the woods and would field dress the deer immediately, drag it to the RV, raise it, skin and quarter it. I also used it on two 400 lb bears.

I'm a lazy man! I like my luxurious, heated and comfortable hunting shed with comfortable chairs, a stove and port-a-pot , but, it's not the same and I refuse to give up the "Real Hunt". When I hunted the mountains, I had everything I needed for an emergency including food, water, fire starter and a block and tackle with para-cord. I just need to figure out a new way to do it.

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[Japhy]

Freezer those are all great ideas. I gave up long rifles that required 2 hands to carry after my brother loaned me his Redhawk to hunt the Midwest brush never went with a rifle after that. You are in a different environment and you are on the right track. Field dressing white tails I used a piece of fiberglass about 3ft , 1/4in nylon rope rigged with a pulley tied at about 10ft and another length of rope through the pulley then over the first available tree limb. The idea of using a walking stick as a rest is a winner! Thin out the backpack if you didn’t use something on your last 2 outings you don’t need it. Light easy and hands free will make a huge difference.

[Freezer]

Freezer those are all great ideas. I gave up long rifles that required 2 hands to carry after my brother loaned me his Redhawk to hunt the Midwest brush never went with a rifle after that. You are in a different environment and you are on the right track. Field dressing white tails I used a piece of fiberglass about 3ft , 1/4in nylon rope rigged with a pulley tied at about 10ft and another length of rope through the pulley then over the first available tree limb. The idea of using a walking stick as a rest is a winner! Thin out the backpack if you didn’t use something on your last 2 outings you don’t need it. Light easy and hands free will make a huge difference.

Thank you, you got me thinking about the small block and tackle set I have. I carried it with para-cord to get deer out of the steep ravines I hunted. Here in Pa I could throw a line over a nearby tree limb, pull the block and tackle up and haul the deer up for field dressing.

[Bigslug]

Any reason you can't legally hunt with a stripped down AR in the original 5.56? We proved the 62 grain Barnes TSX on Zee's Hogzilla quartering-away kill a few years back. I see no sense in converting one to a manual if you can.

If you dial back the "tactical", you can dispense with any Pic-rails besides those on the upper and run a low mass, small diameter tube handguard with nothing attached to the M-lok slots but a single sling hardpoint. A pencil barrel would reduce the weight further, and a mid-length gas system would eliminate even the perceived need for the extra weight of an H2 buffer. From there, it's just a matter of picking pistol grip and stock for weight. You'll probably want a forward-kicked cantilever scope mount, but since this rifle doesn't need to be "Marine-proof", you wouldn't need the burliest thing you can find.

Alternatively, there's the CZ-600 trail in either 5.56 or 7.62x39. For the latter, Barnes does a .310" 123 grain TSX and a 150 grainer at 311.

[Gila]

Aluminum with pneumatic tires. The larger the diameter, the easier it is to pull.

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[mitdr774]

A bolt gun 6.5 Grendel can be loaded to book loads for a 6.5x55 intended for surplus rifles. The Nosler data is well above SAAMI specs for 6.5x55, but probably within CIP specs. I have 6.5 Grendel loads that push a 129gr InterLock faster than my Hornady book max loads push that bullet in my M96 based 6.5x55. I would not hesitate to push a Grendel to 150 yards. I would start to question things past 200 without knowing how much its slowing down at that distance. If memory is correct expansion started to get questionable below 2000 fps, but I could be mistaken.

[jkp]

Does it have to be bolt action? If you want the AR style just build a lightweight AR.

[Freezer]

Any reason you can't legally hunt with a stripped down AR in the original 5.56? We proved the 62 grain Barnes TSX on Zee's Hogzilla quartering-away kill a few years back. I see no sense in converting one to a manual if you can.

If you dial back the "tactical", you can dispense with any Pic-rails besides those on the upper and run a low mass, small diameter tube handguard with nothing attached to the M-lok slots but a single sling hardpoint. A pencil barrel would reduce the weight further, and a mid-length gas system would eliminate even the perceived need for the extra weight of an H2 buffer. From there, it's just a matter of picking pistol grip and stock for weight. You'll probably want a forward-kicked cantilever scope mount, but since this rifle doesn't need to be "Marine-proof", you wouldn't need the burliest thing you can find.

Alternatively, there's the CZ-600 trail in either 5.56 or 7.62x39. For the latter, Barnes does a .310" 123 grain TSX and a 150 grainer at 311.

Semi autos are not legal for deer in PA. I save a lot of weight by eliminating the gas and buffer systems. The "T" bolt systems have some major drawbacks including they're hard to draw back and the weight of needing the buffer spring system. The Shaw barrel will not have gas ports. The bullpup configuration is lighter than a standard AR configuration and much shorter, meaning it is easier to carry on my chest in the woods and brush without snagging. It will be much more expensive. It will need to be an 18*" barrel to meet the minimum rifle OLA of 26", if my calculations are correct, a longer barrel is possible. I could use a .223 or 7.62x39 but feel the 6.5 Grindel gives a better trade-off of bullet selection, down range energy and recoil from such a light package especially if I use a barrel longer than 18". Another option is the 6 Arc. When still hunting I'm not sure I will always have optimal shot placement time. I have past questionable shots in the past, I guess it's a confidence thing. One thought is to buy the action and chassis, then use a piece of pipe taped to the receiver and stock to estimate the best barrel length and an idea of its handling characteristics. The only thing I plan on mounting on this rifle is a scope and sling, no fancy rails are needed.

An AR 10 in 6.5 Creemoor could open a new idea on a mountain/woods gun.

I appreciate the feedback as I'm trying to figure this out as a go.

[CPJ 2.0]

6 ARC mini action. Can also be had in 6.5 Grendel


https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rif ... s-6mm-arc/

[Chiro1989]

6 ARC mini action. Can also be had in 6.5 Grendel


https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rif ... s-6mm-arc/

I thought you had an AR like bolt gun?

[breamfisher]

I'm wondering if a bullpup bol5 action will be a little... awkward to manipulate.

[Chiro1989]

I have fondled these and thought maybe.

https://bpioutdoors.com/cascade-sb/

[CPJ 2.0]

6 ARC mini action. Can also be had in 6.5 Grendel


https://www.brownells.com/gun-parts/rif ... s-6mm-arc/

I thought you had an AR like bolt gun?

I do.
Just throwing other options out that folks may not be aware of.
Done it before, Brownells still owes me comission.

[CPJ 2.0]

I'm wondering if a bullpup bol5 action will be a little... awkward to manipulate.

Beyond awkward.
There is a soloution I saw, lemme see if I can find.

[CPJ 2.0]

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[mitdr774]

Looks like an exaggerated Remington 600 bolt design.

[Freezer]

I really appreciate the input and ideas. The 1500 with a 20"barrel weighs 3.9 lbs meaning if you can find a bullpup stock you will be at 6 lbs before a scope. The current project as it stands should be about 4.25 Lbs.

I really like the bolt idea! Since the BCA bolt handle is screwed to the bolt having an off set bolt milled wouldn't be out of the question!

I milled a composite 80% receiver yesterday. My nephew gave me the Composite AR lower and composite fire control system. If I can get BCA to sell me an action I'll begin this project.

[Piker]

Hello Everyone,

Freezer, your statement about me and whose belief is, "If it's not an AR, it's antiquated.". Is simply not true, I have a Remington 700 action in 6.5 creed. I just prefer the ergonomic of newer designs. Some people think the Steyr AUG is antiquated, but that is my first love.

Do to my love of bullpups, I made a 6.5 Grendel bolt action built on the AR-15 lower. Which allows me to hunt with in Pa. On my current build and the new ones we are working on, the bolt handle is forward compared to a traditional style . The action can be worked easily without having to move your head.

Here is my bullpup with a 16 barrel sitting at 26 and 1/4 inches with my suppressor next to my 2nd traditional bolt action ruger American chambered in 300 blk.

[Gila]

The best woods gun ever; bar none - the 30/30 lever action (mine's a Marlin)...

[CPJ 2.0]

Hello Everyone,

Freezer, your statement about me and whose belief is, "If it's not an AR, it's antiquated.". Is simply not true, I have a Remington 700 action in 6.5 creed. I just prefer the ergonomic of newer designs. Some people think the Steyr AUG is antiquated, but that is my first love.

Do to my love of bullpups, I made a 6.5 Grendel bolt action built on the AR-15 lower. Which allows me to hunt with in Pa. On my current build and the new ones we are working on, the bolt handle is forward compared to a traditional style . The action can be worked easily without having to move your head.

Here is my bullpup with a 16 barrel sitting at 26 and 1/4 inches with my suppressor next to my 2nd traditional bolt action ruger American chambered in 300 blk.

That bullpup is hideous.

I desire it.

What is the lower setup?

I’d ditch the VFG, but I despise a VFG. Cool build.

[Piker]

A3 Tactical Triad. Out of the box the triad will not work with a bolt action upper. It made my own part to make it compatible. There are two other options currently, but Shot Show is only a few weeks away