Vhitavuori N560

[mitdr774]

With some powder options becoming scarce to non existent I need to start considering other powders to try. I had good results with RL-22 and RL-26 in the 6.5-06 and am working on a 6mm-06 (No clue why other than it sounded like a neat idea). That being said, both of those powders are not exactly in ready supply lately. I have enough RL-22 to have some fun for a while, but maybe enough RL-26 to develop a load. I have given up on finding RL-26 again. While running the 6mm-06 through Quick Load N560 keeps showing up somewhere between RL-22 and RL-26 in the propellant tables. I have no experience with Vhitavuori powders, but I did find some N560 at a local place. Has anyone here had experience with this powder? Does it seem like a good fit for something like a 6mm or 6.5mm?

[Zee]

Piss poor planning.
Should have stocked up.

[mitdr774]

Im stocked up on powder that will work, but why have a hot rod round if you are just going to run at velocities you can get with a smaller case? I dont know if I could safely put enough 4350 in a -06 case to get much more than can be had with a hot 6.5x55 or .243 load. I stocked up on powders I was using for cartridges I was playing with at the time. The 6.5-06 and 6mm-06 ideas came about after things started getting scarce around me. Anyways, I can get some N560 now...

[Zee]

You think WAY too much!!! Suck it up, Buttercup! I’ll hold your beer. Stop asking so many questions and DO something!!! You think way too much. Freaking doo something g and telll us the results so WE can lean. Shut up and science!

[Zee]

Seriously, for once shut your brain off and freaking act! Indecision kills.
Results matter.

[Zee]

I would rather see a post of, hey ass clowns, I’m doing this and hold my beer than………..hey guys…….can I do this? We all need to feed the machine.

[mitdr774]

I have never used any Vhitavuori powders, hence asking about this powder.

[Bigslug]

I'm trying to remember if I've ever even SEEN Vhitavouri powders. . .

Kinda have to agree with Zee. You're driving down the interstate and running out of gas. You can't find you're preferred Shell station. Your choices are to stop at a Mobil station or be stranded in the middle of nowhere.

[CPJ 2.0]

I'm trying to remember if I've ever even SEEN Vhitavouri powders. . .

Even the most well stocked, like a reloaders DREAM shop not far from me who stocks damn near everything MAY have a can or two of it.

[jwv2023]

Many years ago, I had the same experience when Hillary and Obama were threatening the 2nd. That was the 1st time we had shortages.
I had a very accurate load for my 223AI with Xterminator. I had tried most of the other powders that were still available. They were OK but dirty. Then I tried VV N133. It was the answer to the maidens prayer. Next came the 6mm BR. VV135 gave me great results. That was at least 20 years and many 8 pounders ago.
I don't have any experience with N560 but if the fact that Vihta Vouri bothers you, buy a pound. I think you will be pleased.

[mitdr774]

I have zero experience with that brand powder. I dont personally know anyone with experience with that brand powder. I asked here hoping someone would have experience with that brand powder. Its not indecision, its not wanting to have to buy an 8 pound jug just to try out a completely new to me powder with no opinions or personal experience from others to go on. Local powder options are limited, and this powder is an option, if I want to buy an 8 pound jug.

I have other powders on had that will work, but velocity will be lower enough to not justify the wasted powder when I have other cartridges that can achieve the same velocity at a lower charge weight. If Im going to be limited to a slower velocity anyways I might as well just dump the bigger cartridge and stick with the smaller one. Maybe I should just do that anyways and stick to factory ammunition so I cant ask anymore dumb questions. Why drive the pony car at economy car performance if I can just drive the economy car and go further between gas stations?

Many years ago, I had the same experience when Hillary and Obama were threatening the 2nd. That was the 1st time we had shortages.
I had a very accurate load for my 223AI with Xterminator. I had tried most of the other powders that were still available. They were OK but dirty. Then I tried VV N133. It was the answer to the maidens prayer. Next came the 6mm BR. VV135 gave me great results. That was at least 20 years and many 8 pounders ago.
I don't have any experience with N560 but if the fact that Vihta Vouri bothers you, buy a pound. I think you will be pleased.

Thank you. This is the kind of response I was hoping for.

[HappySquid]

I think that Orchidman has experience with it, as far as I remember

[sakodude]

I have been using the VV pistol powers with good results but have not used and rifle powders.

[jwv2023]

You know mitdr, I understand your reluctance to try a totally new powder. When I started handloading, when I was 18, things were very different. I still have an empty can of 4831 that still has a price tag of 75 cents on it. I didn't pay 75 cents because at the time I worked at a sporting goods and bought everything wholesale. 100 primers were 65 cents. 30-06 cases were lying around at the range like empty 22LR. I would neck down the 06 cases to .270. I still have those cases.
Now, if you feel like experimenting with a new powder, all of a sudden you're paying upwards of $40-$50 a pound. You have be informed before you take the leap. Primers are close to $10/100.
When I started buying VV N133, I had to take a chance on an $18 pound of powder. I will say I feel comfortable buying either VihtaVouri or Ramshot for any rifles I shoot.

[mitdr774]

I have been using the VV pistol powers with good results but have not used and rifle powders.

I have only come across the rifle powders locally. I have enough W296, IMR4227, and Blue Dot to keep me covered for handgun stuff and limited firearm zone rifle for a while. Good to hear you have had good results with the handgun powders though.

You know mitdr, I understand your reluctance to try a totally new powder. When I started handloading, when I was 18, things were very different. I still have an empty can of 4831 that still has a price tag of 75 cents on it. I didn't pay 75 cents because at the time I worked at a sporting goods and bought everything wholesale. 100 primers were 65 cents. 30-06 cases were lying around at the range like empty 22LR. I would neck down the 06 cases to .270. I still have those cases.
Now, if you feel like experimenting with a new powder, all of a sudden you're paying upwards of $40-$50 a pound. You have be informed before you take the leap. Primers are close to $10/100.
When I started buying VV N133, I had to take a chance on an $18 pound of powder. I will say I feel comfortable buying either VihtaVouri or Ramshot for any rifles I shoot.

The days of "cheap" components are long gone. I would be less hesitant if it was just a $50 pound compared to an 8 pound jug.

Looks like im just going to have to take the gamble on the 8 pounder and hope it works well for the intended use, or it will become powder for paper punching to conserve other powders for accuracy.

[CPJ 2.0]

Buying an 8 pounder to try? Oh hell no. Do they not sell it in pound bottles?

[mitdr774]

Buying an 8 pounder to try? Oh hell no. Do they not sell it in pound bottles?

Locally my option is an 8 pound jug. I can order a 1 pound can online, but by the time you factor in shipping, tax, and hazmat fees it's going to be $90-100 for that one pound. Local option is about $425 after tax for the 8 pound jug.

[Freezer]

I remember when you could buy load work-up packs. Four, four oz bottles of different powders designed for load work-ups. Those were the days!

[CPJ 2.0]

Buying an 8 pounder to try? Oh hell no. Do they not sell it in pound bottles?

Locally my option is an 8 pound jug. I can order a 1 pound can online, but by the time you factor in shipping, tax, and hazmat fees it's going to be $90-100 for that one pound. Local option is about $425 after tax for the 8 pound jug.

I’m still spending $100 before I spend $400 on something that might not work.

[mitdr774]

Velocity was decent, group sizes were not. 90gr CX at up to 3685fps before I called it quits, but all test loads had at least one flyer that would turn what would have been at worst an acceptable group size into something unacceptable. It was not a consistent flyer in the string either. Oh well. Time to re-evaluate the project idea and see if I can find another cartridge to use the powder in. Past time to focus on getting loads sorted out for deer season anyways, so the play rifles need put away and the limited zone rifles need to be focused on.

[Varmintmist]

Just an FYI, I run N165 in the 6.5x55SE. Ran a bunch of stuff through it working to a velocity I liked and the faster it went the better it shot. AFTER BREAK IN. Finally got it to a 600 yard range now that I am taking time other than service rifle. Off a sling I was punching the X (6 in) at 600 pretty consistently once I figured out that it likes to be snuggled. Those that were out were my fault. Going to try my hand at a 1K match this weekend if I can get in at this late date.
28" bbl 1-7, 142gr SMK 2921avg with and SD of 12.5 in a 10 shot string. Worked up load, looking at a 139 and a 144 max loads on the V site, this is right there.

A lot of people went to N140 in service rifle (223) with good results and use the same powder in 06. Vhitavuori is a good powder and it used to be expensive, until the shortages where it stayed the same price or at least only got more expensive at a slower rate. Hodgon didnt do themselves any favors running up the price of Varget and everything else, then leaving it high. Lots of people found alternatives that work as well for less.

[mitdr774]

I did try the N560 in my M98 6.5x55 with 140gr Gold Dot bullets. Groups were not very good and velocity was okay from what I recall. Pushing a 142gr to over 2900 is really moving for a 6.5x55. I would hesitate to push a M96 that hard, but would probably be alright in a M98. I also dont have a 28" barrel though. Well My surplus M96 does, but I dont push that one at all. It mostly eats a diet of 160gr RN at 2200-2300 fps when it does come out to play. My other M96 has a slightly recountoured surplus M38 barrel on it, and I want to say the M98 has a 22" barrel.

I have noticed more Vhitavuori powders being available at my local place lately. I may start looking at some other options as I start using my supplies of other powders.

I am glad that I stocked up prior to the last big shortage. Some of the powders are more than double what they were.

[Varmintmist]

I did try the N560 in my M98 6.5x55 with 140gr Gold Dot bullets. Groups were not very good and velocity was okay from what I recall. Pushing a 142gr to over 2900 is really moving for a 6.5x55. I would hesitate to push a M96 that hard, but would probably be alright in a M98. I also dont have a 28" barrel though. Well My surplus M96 does, but I dont push that one at all. It mostly eats a diet of 160gr RN at 2200-2300 fps when it does come out to play. My other M96 has a slightly recountoured surplus M38 barrel on it, and I want to say the M98 has a 22" barrel.

I have noticed more Vhitavuori powders being available at my local place lately. I may start looking at some other options as I start using my supplies of other powders.

I am glad that I stocked up prior to the last big shortage. Some of the powders are more than double what they were.

6.5x55SE, not 2.5x55 Swedish Mauser. Same case, 2 different critters, 2 different sets of rules. I am near book max, not over book max with no signs of pressure.

https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-da ... 1/-1/-1/-1
https://www.vihtavuori.com/reloading-da ... 0/-1/-1/-1

Vhitavuori has made inroads in the US since the powder shortage followed by the powder price hike led by Hodgdon/IMR. Its always been here, but it was the expensive option before. Now its either right there or less. I am pretty sure that the 500 series is made for the shorter cased stuff like the Creed or 308 and you are using it in an 06 case. An issue? I dunno.

[mitdr774]

6.5x55SE can be used in a M98. Standard 6.5x55 is SAAMI speced for use in a M96. Its like the load dada for surplus vs "strong action". I think Nosler just skipped the surplus load data all together as their load data is much hotter than every other book seems to be. Hornady has surplus only load data. I look at it as 6.5x55 is SAAMI spec and 6.5x55SE is CIP spec for the exact same cartridge. CIP just expects Europeans to be smart enough to know better while SAAMI assumes people are too stupid to be smart about things.

Quick Load has N560 as one of my top options for both 6.5-06 and 6mm-06. RL-26 and RL-22 are usually slightly faster per Quick Load, but are not the easiest to come by any more.