Optic On Carry Piece Revisited.

[DanielChamberlain]

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So, I put an optic on the little Canik. The target is off hand at 15 yards and a full 15 round magazine with my carry ammo.
It's a sweet shooter.

[Wambli Ska]

Nice target! Just got the wife a P365 with an optics ready slide. Full house conversion.

[Diver43]

Well, because of you guys on here I did it.
Picked up a Holosun 507 at the AF Base for 50 bucks less than anywhere else, plus no tax. Boxed it up with my slide and sent it to JSD. It took it a whole week to make it's way to him. He did his magic and sent me a Pic. I thought, Wow that looks good. Well it only took a couple days to get back to me and that first Pic did not do the work justice. JSD did a awesome job milling my slide. Not a machine mark be seen and a perfect fit. I was worried as a LGS owner showed me his and while things were tight and straight, the marks were horrible. Thanks JSD, you do great work!!

[Justsomedude]

No problem. I was happy to be able to do the work for you. It should also be sighted in right on the money at about 10 to 15 yards. I always laser sight them in for people because I assume nobody wants to have to fiddle with it at the range.

[GrapeApe]

I plan on sending a 1911 slide to him one of these days.
Got to get a RMSc dot first though.

[DanielChamberlain]

I have them an all my regular carry guns now.

[Diver43]

I have them an all my regular carry guns now.

Not sure how many i will have a optic cut made, but any future purchases will be optic ready. Unless itnis an old classic of course.
I picked up a Kel Tec P17 w/CT to give it a try thinking if I don't like the red dot I can remove it. I didn't realize with the Kel Tec there is no just remove it as there are no rear sights.
Thinking of one on the wife's Shield EZ if she likes it and it doesn't mess up the ergonomics of the EZ

[shotgunshooter3]

Using all this confounded SpACe ShuTTlE TeCHNologY on your stone axes will get y'all kilt in the streets....

[breamfisher]

Using all this confounded SpACe ShuTTlE TeCHNologY on your stone axes will get y'all kilt in the streets....

Don't forget "if you need a red dot to aim, you shouldn't be carrying a defensive handgun."

I don't know what the logic is with that...

[Diver43]

Using all this confounded SpACe ShuTTlE TeCHNologY on your stone axes will get y'all kilt in the streets....

Don't forget "if you need a red dot to aim, you shouldn't be carrying a defensive handgun."

I don't know what the logic is with that...

I said the same thing, until I tried it. It helps me shoot a little better.

[Japhy]

What is the average distance in a defensive situation?
What is the maximum distance?

My bet is among fine shooters we have here that most if not all could mag dump into the 10 ring of a silhouette @ 30+ ft without using sights of any kind

[shotgunshooter3]

What is the average distance in a defensive situation?
What is the maximum distance?

My bet is among fine shooters we have here that most if not all could mag dump into the 10 ring of a silhouette @ 30+ ft without using sights of any kind

Why would you willingly decrease the effectiveness of your chosen defense tool? For all the bluster about how much a life is worth, the cost of a reliable RDS these days is comparatively negligible.

[Diver43]

What is the average distance in a defensive situation?
What is the maximum distance?

My bet is among fine shooters we have here that most if not all could mag dump into the 10 ring of a silhouette @ 30+ ft without using sights of any kind

Why would you willingly decrease the effectiveness of your chosen defense tool? For all the bluster about how much a life is worth, the cost of a reliable RDS these days is comparatively negligible.

I can't speak for others, but the optic helps me shoot a little bit better. Next range trip i will test more distance than 10 yards

[Chiro1989]

Some defensive shots can be across a church or down a school hallway

[Bigslug]

Some defensive shots can be across a church or down a school hallway

Don't go to church. Dropped out of college. I guess I'll need a different range.

I often muse about how red dots and other various technological crutches help us continue to function as we get older. . .but it doesn't hide the grim reality that nature is pretty much done with us by our mid '40's.

Kinda funny how I remember "gun sight" milestones. I learned to shoot on blued open sights on a 1950's era Remington .22. When I first encountered a Ruger 10/22 in my teens with it's gold bead front and white diamond below the rear sight notch. I thought it was the most awesome sighting system in the universe - even though the sight radius was maybe 10 inches shorter. 10-15 years later when my eyes were more worn out, I encountered a 10/22 again and thought "these sights are CRAP". About 5 years ago, I bought my second CZ 452 specifically because it was the long 29" barrel version with a huge black front sight that was far enough away for me to sort of focus on through my 20/20 distance prescription.

Now I wonder if the younger generations who started burning their eyes out on electronic screens basically from birth will even ever have much ability to shift focal distance between a target and a front sight.

Red dots may be the only answer for the devolving human organism.

[Diver43]

Some defensive shots can be across a church or down a school hallway

Don't go to church. Dropped out of college. I guess I'll need a different range.

I often muse about how red dots and other various technological crutches help us continue to function as we get older. . .but it doesn't hide the grim reality that nature is pretty much done with us by our mid '40's.

Then again, I wonder if the younger generations who started burning their eyes out on electronic screens basically from birth will even have much ability to shift focal distance between a target and a front sight.

It is not a crutch, it is an enhancement. It doesn't make a bad shooter good. With practice, it can make your skill level a little better.

[CPJ 2.0]

Some defensive shots can be across a church or down a school hallway

Don't go to church. Dropped out of college. I guess I'll need a different range.

I often muse about how red dots and other various technological crutches help us continue to function as we get older. . .but it doesn't hide the grim reality that nature is pretty much done with us by our mid '40's.

Then again, I wonder if the younger generations who started burning their eyes out on electronic screens basically from birth will even have much ability to shift focal distance between a target and a front sight.

It is not a crutch, it is an enhancement. It doesn't make a bad shooter good. With practice, it can make your skill level a little better.

Incorrect.
It can make your skill level a LOT better. With the proper instruction of course. They also show you how bad you suck during dry fire training.
Which, if anyone dismisses dry fire training, quit listening to them. They are ignorant and or an idiot.

[Bigslug]

No. It's a crutch. Anything that can be done with a handgun has been done with iron sights by properly able humans who took the time to develop the skill while they were still young enough to retain it.

I will grant that a red dot is a better way to aim a pistol because it is more in keeping with how the human body responds to stress (shift focus to the threat), and that it's also a better option for old folks than practicing the "bifocal/progressive lean-back" to un-fuzz their front sight

But this doesn't get around that fact that it's great advantage is highlighted by a basic lack of ability on the part of the operator - whether that's by age or lack of practice.

Sure, it's a game changer that gives mere mortals - especially those past their prime - the notion that we might be able to hit a major league fastball, but it's still a crutch.

[shotgunshooter3]

Was the coat, sling, or fine iron sights you used in NRA Hi Power a crutch? What about the match grade ammo, premium barrel, or light trigger? No, they aren't, and neither is a RDS. They were enhancements to the tool to let a good shooter focus on fundamentals instead of equipment limitations. Similarly, a RDS on a handgun enhances the usefulness of the handgun, but at the end of the day it's still a handgun. Ergo, enhancement.

Do you use cruise control? Is that a crutch, or is it a tool to reduce fatigue? The car is still a car even if the cruise control doesn't work.

[breamfisher]

I use a car with a manual crank starter, manual transmission, no A/C, and no turn signals. I use hand signals.

[Bigslug]

I use a car with a manual crank starter, manual transmission, no A/C, and no turn signals. I use hand signals.

And it's still a crutch that props up our inability to cover distance at speed. The Highpower accoutrement that SS3 mentions are crutches in the extreme - in the very literal sense that holding a rifle on target at distance is hard. There were a number of reasons why I let that game go, but those artificial, "gamer" aspects of the equipment (what soldier or hunter shoots while wearing a straight-jacket?) were a part of why I lost interest and shifted to hunting and back to plinking. The coat and sling were just a shooting bench (another crutch) that I found less comfortable.

Crutches - we all use 'em. Some of us are just less in denial about the fact that they are indeed crutches, being comfortable in our physical pathetic-ness and willing to call them what they are.

I wear glasses and shoot red dots because my eyeballs are dusty fossils. If my eyes could still "walk", I certainly wouldn't use the former crutch, and probably not the latter. I'll never have a proper answer to that question, because the eyes died right as the mini pistol optics hit the scene. It's only a "gift" in that it's equipment that lets me keep playing at something near the level I used to play. People may be alive because they have a pacemaker in their chest, but nobody WANTS a pacemaker in their chest. The screws, loc-tite, batteries, glass, and gears associated with red dots are a pacemaker for the frail human eye. No shame in shooting with one, but call it what it is.

[breamfisher]

Next deer season hunt barefoot. You can wear clothes, but that's it.

Me, I figure my cranium allows me the use of "tools," and if I have them, I use them. My progenitors didn't claw their way to the top of the food chain for me to forego what tech I can acquire. And self defense may be the ultimate food chain.

[Zee]

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[breamfisher]

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Ha ha, true!

[CPJ 2.0]

I use a car with a manual crank starter, manual transmission, no A/C, and no turn signals. I use hand signals.

And it's still a crutch that props up our inability to cover distance at speed. The Highpower accoutrement that SS3 mentions are crutches in the extreme - in the very literal sense that holding a rifle on target at distance is hard. There were a number of reasons why I let that game go, but those artificial, "gamer" aspects of the equipment (what soldier or hunter shoots while wearing a straight-jacket?) were a part of why I lost interest and shifted to hunting and back to plinking. The coat and sling were just a shooting bench (another crutch) that I found less comfortable.

Crutches - we all use 'em. Some of us are just less in denial about the fact that they are indeed crutches, being comfortable in our physical pathetic-ness and willing to call them what they are.

I wear glasses and shoot red dots because my eyeballs are dusty fossils. If my eyes could still "walk", I certainly wouldn't use the former crutch, and probably not the latter. I'll never have a proper answer to that question, because the eyes died right as the mini pistol optics hit the scene. It's only a "gift" in that it's equipment that lets me keep playing at something near the level I used to play. People may be alive because they have a pacemaker in their chest, but nobody WANTS a pacemaker in their chest. The screws, loc-tite, batteries, glass, and gears associated with red dots are a pacemaker for the frail human eye. No shame in shooting with one, but call it what it is.

If you hunt or protect yourself with a gun, you’re using a crutch.