Yo Bigslug. Or anyone else. 870 question.

[CPJ 2.0]

Any 870 these days is worth $250, but is this one of the police type models with the good bits, or the express with plastic stuff? I guess it does say Wingmaster.

[Chiro1989]

I was looking at this also doing the math.

[CPJ 2.0]

I was looking at this also doing the math.

My math says some paint stripper and some stain equals a “new” shotgun.
To replace the 870 I sold to my SIL for $100.


And I actually still have the original plastic…somewhere, I think.

[Bigslug]

I'd want a little more information. Better still, I'd want to get hands on and pick through them.

Problem is, it's often more a question of when it was made over what's stamped on the receiver. We are after all dealing with a gun that became "tactical" by taking a duck gun and putting short barrel on it - mechanical upgrades for LE came later as they found out what the shortcomings were. The earliest Express models from the early/mid '90's were simply Wingmasters with a bead-blast finish and birch stocks. . . and all used the same general components that were later reserved for the Police models, minus a few of the beefy springs. Probably in the mid to late '90's or early 2000's was when they really went off the rails with "Can we make it even CHEAPER?" on the commercial side.

If it's a real oldie, it's even money as to whether the agency trading them off had an armorer that was serious enough to do the upgrades. . .or the maintenance.

Before I got to my department, one of the know-nothing bean counters bought Express models for our less-lethals. Fortunately, they were early enough in Express production that "all" I had to do to get them decently "up to code" was raise the dents for engaging the plastic mag spring retainer, install the mag cap retaining detent and spring in the hole which the factory still put in the barrel retaining ring at that time, upgrade from the 16" to the 22" mag spring, install the spring steel retainer, put on an LE mag cap, and put the heavy LE sear spring in them. I think I replaced some of the later MIM extractors in that batch, but it's been a couple decades. At least on the guns of that era, you could still "get there" by changing parts - at least in everything but the finish.

If you've got a gun that's stamped "Police Magnum", you can assume that it at least left the factory with the good stuff.

Damn it makes me cranky thinking about the direction they went with that line.

Short version: without poking through the inventory, 870s can be Forrest Gump's Box of Chocolates.

[CPJ 2.0]

Man. You suck at enabling.

[Japhy]

Walnut stocks, barrels, and about every part in an 870 is readily available.
It’s probably a safe bet that a surplus le shotgun has seen far less abuse than one used by winter bird hunters.
I had a wingmaster years ago. It worked great but didnt fit me well. Sold it bought Franchi 41 12ga, 26in IC, rib for less than i got for the 870

[Elk Creek]

There are plenty of 870 parts out there, these are wingmasters great guns! Dad was a Remington armorer for the local PD. Not much can go wrong what does is fixes fairly easily. Only the shell latch bars, and ejector require special tools to install the new parts. Just buy it it’s a cool project!

[shotgunshooter3]

Given that they have similar Police Magnums for like $80 more, it may be worth paying the extra coin.

[Bigslug]

Man. You suck at enabling.

Sorry bro. After wrenching on 870's since 2002, my motto has kinda become "Knowledgeable Remington shooters choose Mossberg"

If all you're looking for is a behind-the-front-door / bedroom closet shotgun, and don't have any real intent to trick it out with doodads, there's really nothing that makes the more recent cheap-ass Express and Tactical line of guns unsuitable for that, and yeah, for $250, not bad.

What really chaps my hide is that the 870 got to a point of you seeing a listing of "Used Ford Mustangs for sale". . .and that Mustang could be a GT-500 from 1967, which even hammered would be worth investing in, or a Mustang II from 1974, which wasn't worth anything when brand new.

Functionally, the plastic trigger housings and MIM extractors are irritating, but you're unlikely to kill one. I'd like to say they're easy to upgrade out of except RemArms has been sucking at parts delivery and much of what was on the market has dried up.

It's the Express mag cap / mag spring retainer system that's the real teeth grinder: You can't install a mag extension without knocking out the dimples at the end of the tube, and you need a barrel that has the spring-detent in the front of the retaining ring to interface with the stops on the extension. A major draw of the original 870 format was the ability to reconfigure the front end at will, and the Express pretty much lit that whole concept on fire.

The "Tactical" model with their longer 5+1 mag tube was probably the height of the stupid: because of the relocation of the barrel ring, neither the barrel nor the receiver were compatible with any other 870.

[CPJ 2.0]

So you’re saying….this is the way….

[Elk Creek]

I’d be down but already have mine….

[Chiro1989]

So you’re saying….this is the way….

Go price that out new, I think you would be ahead and no messy blue elbow grease...

[Bigslug]

So you’re saying….this is the way….

Mostly. I wouldn't pistol grip a Mossberg - the top-mounted safety and rear-of-trigger action release are both very ambidextrous and very accessible with the standard stock; with pistol grips, you lose that.

500 vs 590: same shotgun, different barrel mounting system. 590 lets you pull the spring steel mag spring retainer and clean out the mag tube from the front. On the 500, you need to unscrew the mag tube from the receiver to pull the guts. Fun fact, you can make a 500 into a 590 and vice versa. All you need for the military "A1" spec is the heavy wall barrel, metal trigger housing, and metal safety.

Mag tube on an 870 - brazed in. If you crush it beyond the capabilities of a dent remover, it's a factory job. . .who probably won't service a gun made by "Old Remington"

Ejector on an 870 - riveted in and a royal PITA to replace requiring a couple specialized tools. Ejector on a Mossberg - held in with a slot-head screw.

Cartridge stops / shell latches on an 870 - staked in place by deforming receiver metal. On a Mossberg - they fall out when you remove the trigger.

Shell carrier/elevator on an 870 - floppy, variable position, and potentially thumb/glove pinchy. Mossberg - if the action is back, the shell carrier is down and LOCKED down, prohibiting you from screwing up a combat reload by trying to load to the mag - it FORCES you to chamber load. When the action is closed, the carrier melds to the bottom of the bolt and stays totally out of your way when topping off the magazine. ALSO: if you have a double feed on a Remington or accidentally load a shell backwards, your gun is locked up until you perform some pretty intricate gymnastics. On a Mossberg, your problem shells just fall out the bottom and you drive on.

Ejection port Remington - it's a hunting gun that was never intended to be fed in a hurry from anything other than the magazine - small port. Ejection port Mossberg - big and hard to miss whether you overhand your combat reloads in from the top or come from underneath while the gun is in your shoulder.

Action release Remington - at the front of the trigger guard where unfamiliar operators will grope around, terrifying their instructors as they invariably grope INSIDE the trigger guard looking for it. Action release Mossberg - behind the trigger guard where righties and lefties can both run it with their middle finger, keeping their trigger finger along the receiver all the while.

Safety button Remington - "Gee. . .do I push it right or left to fire?" Mossberg - forward toward the threat to fire, back away from the threat to safe.

I'll grant that if you know what you're doing, you'll be able to run either without a hitch, but I've seen and had to deal with all of the above (save the irrevocably crushed mag tube) on 870's. The 'Berg is just a lot more idiot-proof and a lot more resistant to what the world will throw at it.

Main thing though - Mossberg never changed their core blueprint specs to the point you lose interchangeability of key parts.

[CPJ 2.0]

Yeah the stock on that one is gay. But, I came to my senses. IF I found the blue stock in person for two fitty, no questions asked it’s mine.
But the reason I sold my old 870 is because I never used it. So, I un-enabled myself.
But a guy at work has the 590, has had it, and will likely have it. I know where it is if I feel froggy

[Elk Creek]

Yeah the stock on that one is gay. But, I came to my senses. IF I found the blue stock in person for two fitty, no questions asked it’s mine.
But the reason I sold my old 870 is because I never used it. So, I un-enabled myself.
But a guy at work has the 590, has had it, and will likely have it. I know where it is if I feel froggy

I shout my 1887 more that my 870….

[CPJ 2.0]

I never loved my 870. It was a tool. Never shot a Mossberg that I recall. But a Winchester model 12? Yep. Those fit me.