Wadcutter reloading question

[bullsi1911]

I have fired the HBWC loaded backwards into water. They do not expand at .38 Spl velocities. This is more about seeing if they are more likely to tumble with the weight at the front or at the rear.

[bullsi1911]

However, if you do want a HBWC that will expand bigly at low velocities, Matt’s Bullets is what you seek. In .45Colt, it opened up to damn near an inch in diameter in Clear Ballistics:
https://www.mattsbullets.com/215-Grain- ... p_171.html

[Wambli Ska]

I have fired the HBWC loaded backwards into water. They do not expand at .38 Spl velocities. This is more about seeing if they are more likely to tumble with the weight at the front or at the rear.

Oh I’m not thinking .38 spl velocities. I can make those into laser beams from a Ruger .357

[GrapeApe]

I stocked up on the left over HST HBWC from the 38spcl +p when Fed dropped them.
Accuracy SUX, but they expand and hold together nicely even at magnum velocities

HST-20200721_215001.jpg (1.09 MiB) Viewed 410 times

[Diver43]

I have fired the HBWC loaded backwards into water. They do not expand at .38 Spl velocities. This is more about seeing if they are more likely to tumble with the weight at the front or at the rear.

Oh I’m not thinking .38 spl velocities. I can make those into laser beams from a Ruger .357

Wouldn't that type of bullet moving that fast tear apart?

[Diver43]

I have fired the HBWC loaded backwards into water. They do not expand at .38 Spl velocities. This is more about seeing if they are more likely to tumble with the weight at the front or at the rear.

Oh I’m not thinking .38 spl velocities. I can make those into laser beams from a Ruger .357

Wouldn't that type of bullet moving that fast tear apart?

If not, my coal problem is solved

[GrapeApe]

However, if you do want a HBWC that will expand bigly at low velocities, Matt’s Bullets is what you seek. In .45Colt, it opened up to damn near an inch in diameter in Clear Ballistics:
https://www.mattsbullets.com/215-Grain- ... p_171.html

Between the Hydrashoks, and HSTs, I'm pretty well covered on reversed HBWCs

Back in the day, they used to warn about pushing the swaged ones too fast. Probably not an issue with the plated ones though

It didn't take much Unique with the flush seated ones in the magnum cases

[Wambli Ska]

However, if you do want a HBWC that will expand bigly at low velocities, Matt’s Bullets is what you seek. In .45Colt, it opened up to damn near an inch in diameter in Clear Ballistics:
https://www.mattsbullets.com/215-Grain- ... p_171.html

Between the Hydrashoks, and HSTs, I'm pretty well covered on reversed HBWCs

Back in the day, they used to warn about pushing the swaged ones too fast. Probably not an issue with the plated ones though

It didn't take much Unique with the flush seated ones in the magnum cases

The swaged and any soft cast bullets are a problem at magnum speeds because of severe leading. Plating and powder coating make it a non issue like I mentioned with the .458 bullets I’m running north of 1500 fps.

[Wambli Ska]

I have fired the HBWC loaded backwards into water. They do not expand at .38 Spl velocities. This is more about seeing if they are more likely to tumble with the weight at the front or at the rear.

Oh I’m not thinking .38 spl velocities. I can make those into laser beams from a Ruger .357

Wouldn't that type of bullet moving that fast tear apart?

Not really an issue at handgun velocities.

[Bigslug]

I have fired the HBWC loaded backwards into water. They do not expand at .38 Spl velocities. This is more about seeing if they are more likely to tumble with the weight at the front or at the rear.

Oh I’m not thinking .38 spl velocities. I can make those into laser beams from a Ruger .357

Wouldn't that type of bullet moving that fast tear apart?

Maybe. Depends on the lead alloy they're using.

Tin will mix with lead pretty much like water and soap. Tin will make the alloy tougher and "chewier". It will harden the lead, but at a really low rate for the amount you need to add. If you want really nice expansion at handgun or BPCR velocity, you use what we call a "binary" mix of lead and tin only.

Antimony hardens lead a lot more efficiently than tin, but it doesn't mix in as easily (that's a foundry-only job) and has a crystalline structure. Depending on how much is in the mix, bullets can tend to shatter on impact, or the thin bits comprising a hollow point's nose can start breaking off, leaving the base to penetrate on.

Old school wheelweights are about 2%-3% antimony and 1% or less tin. A pretty common mix is to take wheelweight and add 2% extra tin. Makes for a pretty tough mix that you can get some expansion out of a magnum handgun speeds. Guys running slower will go 50-50 wheelweight and pure lead, then add some extra tin to get the mold to fill out better, and yeah, more likely to expand at sub-1000 fps.

Commercial cast bullets not intended to expand tend to run harder (A.) to avoid getting dented up in shipping and (B.) antimony is a lot cheaper than tin. Your HBWC's don't have a thin enough skirt to be likely intended for expansion, and the plating will add more hardness still. Dunno. If they're soft enough, that thick skirt might give some gradual expansion, which could be a good thing. My guess is they're stay un-deformed.

[GrapeApe]

Between the Hydrashoks, and HSTs, I'm pretty well covered on reversed HBWCs

Back in the day, they used to warn about pushing the swaged ones too fast. Probably not an issue with the plated ones though

It didn't take much Unique with the flush seated ones in the magnum cases

The swaged and any soft cast bullets are a problem at magnum speeds because of severe leading. Plating and powder coating make it a non issue like I mentioned with the .458 bullets I’m running north of 1500 fps.

Umm NO,
with the swaged HBWC loaded backwards and pushed hard, the fear was "shooting through" the "skirt" and ringing your barrel.

[CPJ 2.0]

Between the Hydrashoks, and HSTs, I'm pretty well covered on reversed HBWCs

Back in the day, they used to warn about pushing the swaged ones too fast. Probably not an issue with the plated ones though

It didn't take much Unique with the flush seated ones in the magnum cases

The swaged and any soft cast bullets are a problem at magnum speeds because of severe leading. Plating and powder coating make it a non issue like I mentioned with the .458 bullets I’m running north of 1500 fps.

Umm NO,
with the swaged HBWC loaded backwards and pushed hard, the fear was "shooting through" the "skirt" and ringing your barrel.

I question this. In order for you to turn the inny into an outy, the resistance of the bullet moving through the bore would need to be greater than the pressure required to blow the butthole out of a wad cutter. Methinks this just may be folklore

[Wambli Ska]

Between the Hydrashoks, and HSTs, I'm pretty well covered on reversed HBWCs

Back in the day, they used to warn about pushing the swaged ones too fast. Probably not an issue with the plated ones though

It didn't take much Unique with the flush seated ones in the magnum cases

The swaged and any soft cast bullets are a problem at magnum speeds because of severe leading. Plating and powder coating make it a non issue like I mentioned with the .458 bullets I’m running north of 1500 fps.

Umm NO,
with the swaged HBWC loaded backwards and pushed hard, the fear was "shooting through" the "skirt" and ringing your barrel.

Have never seen a case or heard of this before. I think it would have to be a super soft and thin "cup" to even get there. But hell what do I know. The only issue I ever had with swaged bullets were with a box of cold swaged .45 230Gr RNs that I got for free from a friend and being unwilling to throw out anything I decided to use them for SASS in .45 Colt cases. If I pushed them even at relatively modest speeds these things would lead the barrels of my vaqueros something fierce. I did make hundreds of mouse fart loads out of them and shot them for years at the ranch whenever I had kids that wanted to shoot big bore cowboy guns.

[GrapeApe]

I question this. In order for you to turn the inny into an outy, the resistance of the bullet moving through the bore would need to be greater than the pressure required to blow the butthole out of a wad cutter. Methinks this just may be folklore

Quite possibly, but I know for a fact that the same writers that supported loading them, gave warnings about it.
If I could find my boxes of 70's-80's GA and Shooting Times, I could direct you to exact writers

[GrapeApe]

Skeeter Skelton in his "Hipshots" column in the mid/late 70s
Slight correction, it wasn't the base going through the skirt, it was blowing THROUGH the base he was worried about, my apologies.
Same basic result though. Next round Fubar

Find his 1974 article titled "The .38 Special: The One You Can Live With"

[GrapeApe]

Hornady swaged HBWCs backwards, too slow to expand, didn't tumble

https://youtu.be/XYpHbF4nCoQ?si=bPZ4CUmOe9KiQTK-

[JunkCollector]

I wonder if one shaped like a football would tumble.

[Bigslug]

I wonder if one shaped like a football would tumble.

Given that the Confederacy was sniping with them, I'd guess probably not.

https://www.horsesoldier.com/products/relics/10976

[JunkCollector]

I wonder if one shaped like a football would tumble.

Given that the Confederacy was sniping with them, I'd guess probably not.

https://www.horsesoldier.com/products/relics/10976

Perhaps but what happens when it hits something and looses it's gyroscopic effect

[Wambli Ska]

I don't think a human body offers much resistance to a heavy bullet even at moderate speeds. Unless it hits bone it probably punches right through and if it does hit bone then all bets are off on tumbling being caused by shape etc. Of course this is all theoretical since I've never had to play pin-ball with Bullets in bodies.

[JunkCollector]

I don't really want a bullet to tumble
Just like to think at times.....lol
A football only flies straight with spin on it.
A bullet with just a small area engaging the rifling would fly straight but loose it's spin almost instantly on impact.....hypothetically....lol

A body is what % water....that alone is a lot of resistance

It would be a fun project to experiment with IMHO

[Wambli Ska]

I don't really want a bullet to tumble
Just like to think at times.....lol
A football only flies straight with spin on it.
A bullet with just a small area engaging the rifling would fly straight but loose it's spin almost instantly on impact.....hypothetically....lol

A body is what % water....that alone is a lot of resistance

It would be a fun project to experiment with IMHO

1- Stop thinking, it's not good for you
2- A body is 60% percent water, BUT with the exception of a few folks a bullet would only have to travel less than a foot to get through most humans, and WAY less than that in parts like the extremities etc. The only body area where this would be a part of the pertinent conversation is gut shots assuming all bones are missed.
3- I already have a list of folks I'd volunteer for the experiments...

I remember hearing a lot of Vietnam era guys praising the original 55gr 5.56 FMJ because it tumbles on impact, and then firing my first one of those from an AR and punching cleanly through a steel target so fast and clean it didn't even swing, and in the process I ruined a perfectly good brand new steel plate. I'm pretty convinced that if the sucker ain't tumbling in the air when it enters the body the impact is not going to make it tumble either. And If it's tumbling in the air the accuracy will be crap.... so not really desirable.

[bullsi1911]

If y’all want to see some interesting ballistic tests and go down a YouTube rabbit hole, check out Gun Sam on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/@GunSam

If you want to see his old tests on the “tumbling .38s” here is the tests on those
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np0yFk5Kgwk&t=16s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WroVm ... QMAYcqIYzv

[GrapeApe]

Yeah, I posted one of his vids earlier in this thread

[bullsi1911]

Shoot, I guess I missed that.