Steel Shot. Size T.

[T'owd Mon]

Steel shot made for sale in the European market is not as Potent as that marketed in the U.S. due to some of our Proof restrictions as to velocity. However, a local gun shop has acquired a batch of Winchester and Remington steel cartridges. There is one box of 3 1/2" magnum stuff containing 'T' shot; which in size is about the same as AAA lead shot. I use a Winchester SX4 so have no qualms as to using it as the gun was made to fire this stuff. My questions, before buying it, is it a good goose load? Also is it best shot through 1/4 or 1/2 choke for best results?

There was also quite a lot of Winchester 3 1/2" Number 2 shot and Remington 3 1/2" Number 4 Turkey loads. As they were quite cheap I bought a load for use against Cormorants which I shoot under licence and legal here to use lead for.

[Bigslug]

Hardly a birding expert, but there seems to be some consensus to operate in the #2 through BB sizes for steel on geese, and with any pellet material, there's a camp that says smaller pellets of a still-effective size will make for a denser pattern/more impacts/cleaner kills, etc...

That said, a 3 1/2" shell is going to give you a hell of a large payload, so there's little doubt one full of T's would be capable if there's not a lot of air between the pellets.

We seem to be using different terminology in our respective countries, as I've never heard of AAA shot or of chokes referred to as 1/4 or 1/2. With steel and larger pellets, one generally uses less constrictive chokes than with smaller or lead. My thinking is modified choke would be absolutely as tight as you'd go - improved cylinder with something as big as steel T's.

When I bought steel-rated chokes for my Mossberg a couple years ago, they were designed to extend beyond the muzzle - the intent being (I think) to put the constriction forward of the threads thereby preventing damage. That might allow one to run tighter, but my plans were only going as far as #7 1/2 steel on dove, and I never got around to doing that.

And then it becomes a matter of how your gun patterns the load and what range you plan to engage at. No easy answer - hopefully we'll have a bird nerd chime in.

[T'owd Mon]

Thanks for the reply. Looking on my chart AAA lead is .200" or 5.2mm. diameter at 36 to the ounce and the nearest in size to 'T' steel being .200" and 54 to the ounce. Steel BB at .180" runs 70 to the ounce.

BB. lead U.S. size is .180" with 50 to the ounce with our BB being slightly smaller at .160" and 70 to the ounce with your 2 shot being .150" and 90 to the ounce.

Our choke sizes run; Cylinder, Improved Cylinder, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and Full. I would think that Modified is our 1/2 choke and Improved Modified our 3/4 choke. I tend to use the 1/2 choke with lead for cormorant so that if I need to use steel for ducks it should be o.k. with that constriction. My Winchester SX4 is a bit vague indicating Imp. Mod or 3/4 choke is o.k. for steel. I was wanting to try for some geese locally. Last geese I shot were in Scotland with the 8 bore where lead can be used for inland geese flighting. In England the law is different in that we cannot shoot ducks and geese with lead regardless of location. Scotland is only concerned with no lead over wetlands. I do have some Remington number 2 shot. It's just that our steel rounds are a bit weak as to velocity. He only has the one box of 'T' shot so I might get it and do some patterning. Just wondered what the steel preferences were over in America.

[Bigslug]

If your rounds are specifically "de-tuned" for the local market, then maybe going to the larger end of the shot spectrum makes sense. . .but I have to admit to some puzzlement there: the 3 1/2" shell is a relatively recent development specifically for the waterfowl market, and it only fits in guns so chambered, which will also be of relatively recent production. Should not the proofing of a 3 1/2"-rated gun therefore be at pressure levels appropriate to what the round was intended to do? Why would there be a perceived need to water 3 1/2" ammo down when the guns made to accept it are built for the super-ouchy loads?

[Wambli Ska]

Chokes and steel shot are a tricky proposition. Steel does not compress or deform so it delivers significantly tighter patterns than lead even through the least constricted chokes. Squeezing it through a choke even a relatively mild one can give bad results and I’ve seen barrels that have banana peeled because of steel shot been run through chokes meant for lead. Please be careful

[T'owd Mon]

Yes, don't worry I will be careful. We had to abandon lead for wildfowl over 20 years ago. I tried steel then and vowed to never use it again due to its inability to produce clean kills. I got some Bismuth and some Tungsten Matrix. Bismuth fine if range respected and Tungsten perfect; that is until the price skyrocketed due to the Iraq war and the need for tungsten tipped tank shells. I still have some left. I more or less gave up shooting waterfowl and just averaged about 2 ducks a year. Since then I have only shot geese in Scotland where lead can still be used away from wetlands.

Our steel shot loads are proof Tested differently and shot size 4 (U.S. 5) and larger is classed as high performance steel and the velocity must not exceed 1,410 fps. or 430 mps. Looking at American made Winchester 3" and 3 1/2" the velocity is up to 1550fps. making them a bit more potent. The best I could find here is the Gamebore Mammoth pushing 1,321fps. and one brand down as low as 1,195fps.

I figure that my Winchester SX4, made in Portugal and proof tested in Germany and sold in the U.K. should be more than o.k. for any American spec. ammo as it was built for just that. Chance to get something with a bit more Whooph is tempting to try. I have loads of chances for geese but just don't bother to raise a gun at them. If I can get the ammo that I have a bit more confidence in I want to give it a try. I don't know where this particular Gun-Dealer got his supply from but it won't have been through the normal channels and as the stuff he has is a real mixed bag I will have a hunt through to see what he has in steel when I am over that way on Tuesday. I got well stocked up on lead 3 1/2" stuff for the cormorants for which lead is permitted. Time to delve deeper in the box of goodies!

[FJB]

T’owd,
I would grab as many of the 2 shot Winchester rounds that you can. I have 50+ years of waterfowling under my belt and would not hesitate to use it on geese at 50 yards or less. I have over the years tried T shot but was not happy with the performance or patterning.
As previously mentioned, pattern your 1/4 and 1/2 tubes and see what is best.
And have fun!

[FJB]

Forgot to mention, focus on the head of a goose for clean kills. The head and neck of the bird will always indicate where the bird wants to go/is going. It’s hard not to but if you focus on the body with your shot they are hard to bring down.

[Freezer]

X2 what FBJ said. I never use anything tighter than a modified choke for steel or hevi-shot.

Have you considered reloading your own shells? Lee has a simple, inexpensive press that works fine for small volumes.

[T'owd Mon]

I've shot quite a few geese in the old lead shot days. I sort of gave up when steel was introduced and only shot inland in Scotland where the law is different and allows lead still. I'm intending to try the better quality steel offerings later this year. Just got back in from the lakes looking for cormorant. Hundreds of geese about.