Gunroom Gossip. The Road to Damascus.

[T'owd Mon]

I'm sure most have heard the words 'Damascus Barrels' and wondered exactly how they come about. The following three illustrations go someway to explaining this in an example made to show the process. Made from high quality steel and iron formed in square section rods of alternate lengths of each metal in the form of a sandwich which are then heated to a red heat and twisted before being laid together with sections put together with alternate twists. They are then hammer forged together under heat to form a ribbon and then wound around a mandrel to form a tube. This was a highly skilled operation and barrels of this nature are no longer made. I doubt if the necessary skills were ever passed down to the current generation and this has now become a lost art. The last such barrels made by this process ceased sometime after the Great War. There are a few Damascus tubes floating around the Gun Trade today and guns can still be ordered made as such but at a great price. Well made Damascus tubes are, contrary to common thoughts, actually stronger than those made entirely of steel. I stress the point 'well made' as there were a lot of poor quality stuff produced but such would not stand the rigors of the Proof House tests applied. These poor quality tubes are what has led to a mistrust of such and the numerous warnings on the sides of cartridge boxes. Most gun companies producing and selling guns in the inter-war period offered the option of Damascus or Steel but with the Damascus offering commanding a price of around 10% more. There are many different types of Damascus barrel depending on the number of rods employed. I hope that this and the example shown is of interest.

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[CPJ 2.0]

It’s a neat process, but Damascus anything is one of the most overrated steel items in the world. It’s purely cosmetic in the days of modern steel.
As to being stronger, I’m curious about the testing on that.
But, it honestly doesn’t matter. Because regular barrels are strong enough. It’s kind of like saying a Mauser action is stronger than a Savage action.

[Justsomedude]

Someone needs to forge Damascus over a piece of 4140 and then drill, ream, rifle it as a normal barrel, contour, chamber, etc...
Would be pertty.

[Gila]

Someone needs to forge Damascus over a piece of 4140 and then drill, ream, rifle it as a normal barrel, contour, chamber, etc...
Would be pertty.

Yeah, pretty heavy...

[Wambli Ska]

That is very cool and I agree that Damascus is very misunderstood. I too wish we could use technology to bring back a modern manufactured Damascus barrel just for the aesthetics of it.

[T'owd Mon]

I perhaps should have quantified the statement regarding relative strength by explaining that test done at the time between best Damascus and best steel were done when Damascus was at its height. Modern steels have overtaken things somewhat since the last Damascus barrels were made. One of the best modern barrel steels is that found in Russian made Baikal shotguns. The Birmingham Proof House has tested literally millions of barrels since its foundation back in 1813. Baikal shotguns were put through some experimental tests by dropping a 20 bore cartridge into the chamber before firing a 12 bore cartridge behind it and it took it without the slightest problem. Not something to be tried other than under test conditions. I have a Baikal O/U 12 bore that I use for steel cartridge testing as I know I can't really damage anything. I do use the correct cartridge length and am slowly testing the effect of different shot sizes on the choke which are presently 1/2 and 3/4. No changes as yet to the diameter of the choke.

[Wambli Ska]

That’s interesting! I had no idea

[CPJ 2.0]

I perhaps should have quantified the statement regarding relative strength by explaining that test done at the time between best Damascus and best steel were done when Damascus was at its height. Modern steels have overtaken things somewhat since the last Damascus barrels were made. One of the best modern barrel steels is that found in Russian made Baikal shotguns. The Birmingham Proof House has tested literally millions of barrels since its foundation back in 1813. Baikal shotguns were put through some experimental tests by dropping a 20 bore cartridge into the chamber before firing a 12 bore cartridge behind it and it took it without the slightest problem. Not something to be tried other than under test conditions. I have a Baikal O/U 12 bore that I use for steel cartridge testing as I know I can't really damage anything. I do use the correct cartridge length and am slowly testing the effect of different shot sizes on the choke which are presently 1/2 and 3/4. No changes as yet to the diameter of the choke.

That’s a dumb, semi-subjective test.
But, I prefer real data.

[CPJ 2.0]

I perhaps should have quantified the statement regarding relative strength by explaining that test done at the time between best Damascus and best steel were done when Damascus was at its height. Modern steels have overtaken things somewhat since the last Damascus barrels were made. One of the best modern barrel steels is that found in Russian made Baikal shotguns. The Birmingham Proof House has tested literally millions of barrels since its foundation back in 1813. Baikal shotguns were put through some experimental tests by dropping a 20 bore cartridge into the chamber before firing a 12 bore cartridge behind it and it took it without the slightest problem. Not something to be tried other than under test conditions. I have a Baikal O/U 12 bore that I use for steel cartridge testing as I know I can't really damage anything. I do use the correct cartridge length and am slowly testing the effect of different shot sizes on the choke which are presently 1/2 and 3/4. No changes as yet to the diameter of the choke.

That’s a pretty subjective test.
But, I prefer real data.

[CPJ 2.0]

I perhaps should have quantified the statement regarding relative strength by explaining that test done at the time between best Damascus and best steel were done when Damascus was at its height. Modern steels have overtaken things somewhat since the last Damascus barrels were made. One of the best modern barrel steels is that found in Russian made Baikal shotguns. The Birmingham Proof House has tested literally millions of barrels since its foundation back in 1813. Baikal shotguns were put through some experimental tests by dropping a 20 bore cartridge into the chamber before firing a 12 bore cartridge behind it and it took it without the slightest problem. Not something to be tried other than under test conditions. I have a Baikal O/U 12 bore that I use for steel cartridge testing as I know I can't really damage anything. I do use the correct cartridge length and am slowly testing the effect of different shot sizes on the choke which are presently 1/2 and 3/4. No changes as yet to the diameter of the choke.

That’s a pretty subjective test.
But, I prefer real data.

But, I suppose there is some level of assurance that if a mouth breather uses the wrong shell they don’t get worse case of summer teeth.

[T'owd Mon]

Don't worry. The data is all held at the Birmingham Proof House who do extensive testing of guns and ammunition. With 210 years of experience they have quite a lot. I have been a couple of times and had tours around the establishment with a fried who was a Proof House Guardian. A fascinating place.

[CPJ 2.0]

Don't worry. The data is all held at the Birmingham Proof House who do extensive testing of guns and ammunition. With 210 years of experience they have quite a lot. I have been a couple of times and had tours around the establishment with a fried who was a Proof House Guardian. A fascinating place.

I’m glad a government organization is keeping the fit and proper gun owners safe.
Wish the USA had something similar.

[Castle]

I have only seen one Damascus 12 bore double shotgun, it was part of a collection. I know approximately 'nothing' about how they're made . I've never taken an active interest in finding out what's done or how they do it.

That is an interesting process. I can only wonder how someone conjured up that method of barrel making. It does seem like a lot of work. It would be fun to see a master Damascus barrel maker putting one of those barrels together today.

[T'owd Mon]

CPJ, No! The Proof House is totally independent of Government. It exists to protect the consumer from unscrupulous gun making practices and was set up by Gunmakers themselves for this purpose. In fact at one point the Government tried to abolish it as they said it affected exports. The gun trade resisted and won. Although it exists by an Act of Parliament the Government do not control it.

[Freezer]

Bravo Mike, thanks for sharing!