Guns & Outdoors Forum

breamfisher wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 10:50 pm Force, or ask for equal treatment under the law, as per the Constitution?

That’s ridiculous. They have every right and freedom to celebrate their stupidity, as every community has the right to fend them off their property and life. Schools don’t belong to the federal government. They belong to the state and. Communities that pay the taxes to pay for them. So just like the baker that the Supreme Court said didn’t have to bake a cake for a gay wedding the individual communities should be able to dictate the standards they live by. The values of the community and their elected officials come first above anything the Federal government pulls out of their ass.

The constitution does not guarantee you can go take a dump in every bathroom on earth. Freedom is not free of consequences and was never meant to be. And what they did was absolutely force, leveraging the illegal powers that have been seized by the Federal government.

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 11:21 pm

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:20 pm

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 7:01 pm

So do you believe that it is OK for local governments to make anti-2nd amendment laws?

Nope, that is a natural right enumerated in the Bill of Rights. And I know where you’re headed with this. Satanists should have the right to assemble and practice freely. They do not have the right to force a school system to let them use their facilities. That’s just stupid.

Did I miss where the first amendment isn’t a natural right enumerated in the bill of rights?
That’s where Im going with that.

But since you went there…yes, I 100% believe a LEGITIMATE religion such as satanism, Islam, Baptist, etc etc have equal rights to ask for use of school facilities.

I’ll go there again, where in the text of the first amendment does it guarantee you that a school has to let you meet in their premises, or anyone else for that matter?

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

What part of their “right” was violated by Congress?

14th Amendment, and subsequent court cases, held that the Bill of Rights, specifically the one about equal treatment, says what you do or allow for one, you have to do for all.

What doesn't make sense is the school system is paying a lawyer or multiple lawyers, six figures to allow them to try something that most anyone would know they would get whacked for, incurring wasted time and money that could be better spent elsewhere.

Now, if they kicked ALL the religious clubs out, they could refuse the Satanists.

breamfisher wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 12:02 am 14th Amendment, and subsequent court cases, held that the Bill of Rights, specifically the one about equal treatment, says what you do or allow for one, you have to do for all.

What doesn't make sense is the school system is paying a lawyer or multiple lawyers, six figures to allow them to try something that most anyone would know they would get whacked for, incurring wasted time and money that could be better spent elsewhere.

Now, if they kicked ALL the religious clubs out, they could refuse the Satanists.

The last line is the answer.

And what I’m very in favor of.

Removing religion from public schools. Allow students to freely practice their religion.
But don’t allow the use of the building, and don’t encourage one over the other.

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 11:28 pm

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 11:21 pm

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 9:20 pm
Nope, that is a natural right enumerated in the Bill of Rights. And I know where you’re headed with this. Satanists should have the right to assemble and practice freely. They do not have the right to force a school system to let them use their facilities. That’s just stupid.

Did I miss where the first amendment isn’t a natural right enumerated in the bill of rights?
That’s where Im going with that.

But since you went there…yes, I 100% believe a LEGITIMATE religion such as satanism, Islam, Baptist, etc etc have equal rights to ask for use of school facilities.

I’ll go there again, where in the text of the first amendment does it guarantee you that a school has to let you meet in their premises, or anyone else for that matter?

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

What part of their “right” was violated by Congress?

If I call the town mayor a fat sow and get arrested for speaking my mind against his policy, what am I protected by?

I don’t see a guarantee in the 1st amendment that protects me in that situation. But I would be. I also don’t see a guarantee that I’d be protected if I flipped off a cop and called his mother a whore. But if I did, and got arrested, I’d prevail in court.

I'm pretty sure that the argument is tit for tat. If the school can have a Christian meet up, it can have a meet up of any other "religion."

Justsomedude wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 3:21 am I'm pretty sure that the argument is tit for tat. If the school can have a Christian meet up, it can have a meet up of any other "religion."

Yup. The solution is not allowing any religion based clubs/ meetings/ etc…

Which is what it should be. My tax dollars went to build a school, not a rental hall for whatever nut job wants to have a meeting.

bullsi1911 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 4:15 pm

Justsomedude wrote: ↑Wed Nov 22, 2023 3:21 am I'm pretty sure that the argument is tit for tat. If the school can have a Christian meet up, it can have a meet up of any other "religion."

Yup. The solution is not allowing any religion based clubs/ meetings/ etc…

Which is what it should be. My tax dollars went to build a school, not a rental hall for whatever nut job wants to have a meeting.

Actually I’m totally on board with that. Sick of the manufactured outrage…

I always thought that high school was hell, so a little Satanism seems totally appropriate.

There's about as many definitions for Satanism as there are sects of Christianity and other religions, but the term seems to be self applied to groups of folks expressing a non-religious rejection of traditional/arbitrary authorities, choosing Satan as a symbolic figurehead for his asking pointed questions of "The Man". Those generally aren't the folks who would burn pentagrams on the football field. They probably aren't going to have the most pleasant interaction with a lot of self-important school-board types, but like CPJ says, if you're gonna let one group play, you have to let in the rest.

Better to leave it ALL outside the gates.

..

We had a little issue here awhile back. Kids wanted to start a D&D club and a Magic the Gathering club. Most didn’t care but of course some old timers had to stick their nose in it and cause a problem. “Those are satans games” blah blah blah. Truth is if they had let the kids do it nothing would have happened except a group of kids having some fun. My personal opinion is we get way to worked up over dumb little things way too often. They want to have a Satan club go for it then ignore them and have your Jesus, Allah who ever you want club. Today’s society wants to make so much out of so little.

N454casull wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:20 am We had a little issue here awhile back. Kids wanted to start a D&D club and a Magic the Gathering club. Most didn’t care but of course some old timers had to stick their nose in it and cause a problem. “Those are satans games” blah blah blah. Truth is if they had let the kids do it nothing would have happened except a group of kids having some fun. My personal opinion is we get way to worked up over dumb little things way too often. They want to have a Satan club go for it then ignore them and have your Jesus, Allah who ever you want club. Today’s society wants to make so much out of so little.

I remember an editorial in my local paper growing up blaming Satanists for a rash of vandalism. Nope… pretty sure we played mailbox baseball on the way home from Methodist youth group

bullsi1911 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 5:44 pm

N454casull wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:20 am We had a little issue here awhile back. Kids wanted to start a D&D club and a Magic the Gathering club. Most didn’t care but of course some old timers had to stick their nose in it and cause a problem. “Those are satans games” blah blah blah. Truth is if they had let the kids do it nothing would have happened except a group of kids having some fun. My personal opinion is we get way to worked up over dumb little things way too often. They want to have a Satan club go for it then ignore them and have your Jesus, Allah who ever you want club. Today’s society wants to make so much out of so little.

I remember an editorial in my local paper growing up blaming Satanists for a rash of vandalism. Nope… pretty sure we played mailbox baseball on the way home from Methodist youth group

Baptist youth groups did mailbox {redacted: statute of limitations uncertainty} on the way home.

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Tue Nov 21, 2023 11:21 pm But since you went there…yes, I 100% believe a LEGITIMATE religion such as satanism, Islam, Baptist, etc etc have equal rights to ask for use of school facilities.

Yep - you have to make it available to everyone - or nobody. And a pox on "Community standards" - which is just another name for "Tyranny of the majority". With that said - there are no easy answers - laws are far from perfect, but are the best thing we have, unfortunately.