Guns & Outdoors Forum

576gr of powder coated lead at 1150 fps pushes back a decent bit from the bench.

mitdr774 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 5:05 pm 576gr of powder coated lead at 1150 fps pushes back a decent bit from the bench.

I’m sure it does

That’s not even in the spectrum for the 45-60.

I'm sure the .45-60 could do it without working too hard.

mitdr774 wrote: ↑Sat Feb 03, 2024 6:58 pm I'm sure the .45-60 could do it without working too hard.

Not taking it to the edge. The rifle is one of my favorites and it’d be a bear to replace. But it also doesn’t need to be shooting “meek” loads meant for antiques. Our friend grapeape came through last night with another load to try with AA2230 that sounds promising

If I can get 350gr to the 1,400-1,500 range I can take down anything in NA within reason.

I completely understand that.

The 576gr was something I was trying for a family friend to potentially use as a subsonic option for culling on his "ranch". He ended up selling the place so it became a non issue. The Missouri Bullet Company 405 and 410gr bullets shot really well at sub sonic velocities as well. I never pushed them past subsonic, whereas the 576gr i loaded in my .458 WM and pushed to 1700fps easily. That let you know you were shooting something.

I would think that a 350gr could be safely pushed to that range.

May sound like a stupid question, but could you take .45-70 Trap Door load data minimum charge weight, cut it to 80%, and use that as a start charge? My experience with these cartridges is limited. I couldnt really look at that option with my little .458 since it was such a big change from any of the other .458 cartridges with published load data. Powders that work in my .458 WM are useless in a .458X1.8.

In the past I’ve done that but a lot of the 45-70 published loads are basically either a fart pushing a bullet down the barrel or a screaming Ruger only load. I was trying to do something a little more scientific or from someone I trust experience. Grape ape software came to the rescue. Too bad it’s just about the only program I can’t get for Apple OS.

There is a metric butt tonne of buffalo that would attest to the effectiveness of the plain Jane 45-70 loads from the 1800’s. If that load can kill a buffalo, there’s not much on this earth that it won’t kill.
I’d wager there’s a LOT of African game it would kill, but it’s not “traditional or proper”.
Never mind the fact that Im certain many a Brits went on safari using the .577/450 in Martini-Henry rifles. Which, is essentially a 45-70 clone….

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 04, 2024 5:30 pm There is a metric butt tonne of buffalo that would attest to the effectiveness of the plain Jane 45-70 loads from the 1800’s. If that load can kill a buffalo, there’s not much on this earth that it won’t kill.
I’d wager there’s a LOT of African game it would kill, but it’s not “traditional or proper”.
Never mind the fact that Im certain many a Brits went on safari using the .577/450 in Martini-Henry rifles. Which, is essentially a 45-70 clone….

I don’t disagree with you at all. Karamojo Bell killed scores of elephants with small caliber rounds/rifles in them old days. Yet try to get an African PH that will let you go out with a 7mm Mauser for an elephant safari today.

Buffalo hunting in the 1800s was not a very sporting or ethical endeavor. Just about any hole on a buffalo juicy parts (and even larger critters) will kill them, eventually…. And it’s not like the large dumb critters run off after you hit them. Plenty of reports of buffalo nowadays taking multiple shots of modern .338 win mag and just stand there until finally they bled out. Because of this the old time hunters could afford to shoot a buffalo and wait all day for it to finally die because they were slinging lead at a whole herd not really caring where the shots landed since they mostly cared about the tongue and skin. They would just go out later and pick up whatever laid down and died in a convenient spot, whatever wandered away could get eaten by the worms and buzzards.

On a final note, the 45-60 is not a 45-70. The longer lead bullets for the longer case can make the cartridge too long for cycling through the lever action and take up a lot off case space which makes the pressure rise in the smaller space. So I’m limited to mostly 300gr class projectiles. As Zee has pointed out a buttload of time, speed kills. So all I’m trying to do is up the horsepower available to a 150 year old rifle design gun by a few degrees just to see what happens. And I’m basically in uncharted territory since no one is doing this today.

And production begins. Until I get a garage we have to improvise

Sometimes you just have to make due with work location.

Yep…. Put a bid on a house and will find out this week. That will allow me to get better organized and spread out.

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 3:26 pm Yep…. Put a bid on a house and will find out this week. That will allow me to get better organized and spread out.

Nice! That tumble weed is setting down roots!

Elk Creek wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:02 pm

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 3:26 pm Yep…. Put a bid on a house and will find out this week. That will allow me to get better organized and spread out.

Nice! That tumble weed is setting down roots!

We’ll see!

This is temporary until I decide where we are going to build my cabin where I’ll live out the rest of my days…

Ya gotta ask yourself! What would Tom Selleck do??
As long as the loaded round has the proper OAL to feed through your action, I don't see why you can't achieve those velocities! It should be a hammer!! I was shooting mine last week! The 300 grainers, with the load I gave you, shoots about 1400 FPS and is very accurate. But runs out of steam after about 150 yards.

Big Al1 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:09 pm Ya gotta ask yourself! What would Tom Selleck do??
As long as the loaded round has the proper OAL to feed through your action, I don't see why you can't achieve those velocities! It should be a hammer!! I was shooting mine last week! The 300 grainers, with the load I gave you, shoots about 1400 FPS and is very accurate. But runs out of steam after about 150 yards.

I was waiting for you to chime in.

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:25 am

Elk Creek wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:02 pm

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 3:26 pm Yep…. Put a bid on a house and will find out this week. That will allow me to get better organized and spread out.

Nice! That tumble weed is setting down roots!

We’ll see!

This is temporary until I decide where we are going to build my cabin where I’ll live out the rest of my days…
IMG_2793.jpeg

Until you move again

Diver43 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:21 pm

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 4:25 am

Elk Creek wrote: ↑Mon Feb 05, 2024 11:02 pm

Nice! That tumble weed is setting down roots!

We’ll see!

This is temporary until I decide where we are going to build my cabin where I’ll live out the rest of my days…
IMG_2793.jpeg

Until you move again

I strongly crave adventure and change, and I can’t help but wondering what’s over the next mountain, been that way since I was a kid. It helped me in my professional life but I’m getting tired of packing and unpacking. When I get to that cabin with the wide front porch overlooking some open land, I’m done…

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 5:35 pm I strongly crave adventure and change, and I can’t help but wondering what’s over the next mountain, been that way since I was a kid. It helped me in my professional life but I’m getting tired of packing and unpacking. When I get to that cabin with the wide front porch overlooking some open land, I’m done…

With your farm in NY, your fishing home in FL, your mountain home in NC, and now Vegas
Ron's correct IMO, you "done" ...
until you're not

Not a farm. We didn’t grow anything, we only raised/trained horses so technically a ranch.

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:45 pm

Big Al1 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:09 pm Ya gotta ask yourself! What would Tom Selleck do??
As long as the loaded round has the proper OAL to feed through your action, I don't see why you can't achieve those velocities! It should be a hammer!! I was shooting mine last week! The 300 grainers, with the load I gave you, shoots about 1400 FPS and is very accurate. But runs out of steam after about 150 yards.

I was waiting for you to chime in.
IMG_6346.jpegIMG_6345.jpeg

I know where there is a 30-30 version of that lever musket just FYI

sakodude wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 9:55 pm

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:45 pm

Big Al1 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 06, 2024 3:09 pm Ya gotta ask yourself! What would Tom Selleck do??
As long as the loaded round has the proper OAL to feed through your action, I don't see why you can't achieve those velocities! It should be a hammer!! I was shooting mine last week! The 300 grainers, with the load I gave you, shoots about 1400 FPS and is very accurate. But runs out of steam after about 150 yards.

I was waiting for you to chime in.
IMG_6346.jpegIMG_6345.jpeg

I know where there is a 30-30 version of that lever musket just FYI

Begone Beelzebub!!!!!

I be seen the musket too……

I’d like to see a picture of that 30-30. Never seen one before

Rugerfan wrote: ↑Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:22 am I’d like to see a picture of that 30-30. Never seen one before

There ya go.

Cool!! Thanks!