Guns & Outdoors Forum

The more I get interested in a subject the more I want to learn. This is the definitive book of knives and steels by the guy who invented Magna Cut steel that is now all the rage in the knife world.

Seen the guy a few times on YouTube he has an actual PhD on the subject. At the end of the day you’d think he’d be pushing his steel all over the place but in summary he says that edge geometry is WAY more important than steel and heat treating and he explains how to get to the optimal edge for your uses, and get the best performance out of your blade.

The book goes into deep detail on all sorts of knife making related subjects. Should be a good read

Dibs when your done

You got it!

Tool cutting geometry as a machinist carries over quite a bit to knife blade geometry. It's all a trade off to sharpness, wear and durability based on supporting material behind the edge.

Justsomedude wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 4:40 am Tool cutting geometry as a machinist carries over quite a bit to knife blade geometry. It's all a trade off to sharpness, wear and durability based on supporting material behind the edge.

Yep, makes a lot of sense when you think it through…

That’s THE book to learn about knife steel.
It’s been praised by a lot of smart nerdy type people as an excellent source of info.

He does actual TESTING. Not, “well, I know a custom knife maker in backwoods Arkansas who ONLY uses leaf springs from a 1979 Camaro that he heat treats over a white oak fire and quenches in horse piss. Bets knives EVER. Because he says so. “

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 11:19 am That’s THE book to learn about knife steel.
It’s been praised by a lot of smart nerdy type people as an excellent source of info.

He does actual TESTING. Not, “well, I know a custom knife maker in backwoods Arkansas who ONLY uses leaf springs from a 1979 Camaro that he heat treats over a white oak fire and quenches in horse piss. Bets knives EVER. Because he says so. “

Quench in horse piss? Pffft... its your funeral, dude. Only the best quench in marmot urine.

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 11:19 am That’s THE book to learn about knife steel.
It’s been praised by a lot of smart nerdy type people as an excellent source of info.

He does actual TESTING. Not, “well, I know a custom knife maker in backwoods Arkansas who ONLY uses leaf springs from a 1979 Camaro that he heat treats over a white oak fire and quenches in horse piss. Bets knives EVER. Because he says so. “

Yeah there is that. The guy who did a bunch of my knives would only do stock removal. When I asked why he didn’t forge his own he said, “Because a lot of folks that know much more than I about steel make excellent AND consistent stuff with really accurate directions to do it right.”.

Admin wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 12:26 pm

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 11:19 am That’s THE book to learn about knife steel.
It’s been praised by a lot of smart nerdy type people as an excellent source of info.

He does actual TESTING. Not, “well, I know a custom knife maker in backwoods Arkansas who ONLY uses leaf springs from a 1979 Camaro that he heat treats over a white oak fire and quenches in horse piss. Bets knives EVER. Because he says so. “

Quench in horse piss? Pffft... its your funeral, dude. Only the best quench in marmot urine.

And the join cloth. Can’t forget the loin cloth.

Sheesh.

Loin cloths are for barrel break in. Not knife making. Everyone knows that.
And marmot piss is for quenching ford truck springs. Not Camaro springs. Good lord the ignorance is thick here.

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 3:12 pm

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 11:19 am That’s THE book to learn about knife steel.
It’s been praised by a lot of smart nerdy type people as an excellent source of info.

He does actual TESTING. Not, “well, I know a custom knife maker in backwoods Arkansas who ONLY uses leaf springs from a 1979 Camaro that he heat treats over a white oak fire and quenches in horse piss. Bets knives EVER. Because he says so. “

Yeah there is that. The guy who did a bunch of my knives would only do stock removal. When I asked why he didn’t forge his own he said, “Because a lot of folks that know much more than I about steel make excellent AND consistent stuff with really accurate directions to do it right.”.

This, this, THIS.

And while forging from steel of KNOWN composition makes a stronger knife than stock removal using the same steel…. it’s not relevant. Is knife. Is not pry bar.

Using known steel and properly heat treating it is more important than using some random steel you are guessing about and forging . Every heat treatable steel is going to have specific instructions on how to heat treat it. Some is stupid easy to do and get great results, O1 for example. Some of the exotics have really crazy heat treat cycles that may as well involve voodoo and ouija boards.

If you don't plan on making a lot of knives, there are services that will heat treat a blade for you for for $10-15/blade.
A lot cheaper than buying the required equipment for just a few knives

I thought about getting into blacksmithing but I honestly need another hobby like I need a hole in the head. It's fun to watch those guys work though.

GrapeApe wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 4:24 pm If you don't plan on making a lot of knives, there are services that will heat treat a blade for you for for $10-15/blade.
A lot cheaper than buying the required equipment for just a few knives

Yep. And even cheaper at the more industrial type heat treat places. Some charge by the “basket”. (lack of the proper term)
It may be $100 per basket. And whatever fits in the basket, gets done for 100.


Or if you use 01, you can do it with a really simple “forge” (turkey fryer burner) and an old in wall oven you got off Marketplace for $20 this morning and are carrying home in your work van.
Allegedly.

You just made me spit freaking coffee all over the desk...

I BOW to the king of redneckery!!!!!

Toaster ovens are the go to for tempering.
But, I need something bigger for powder coating. I can buy one fancy temp controller and have it do PC and temper duty

Justsomedude wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 4:39 pm I thought about getting into blacksmithing but I honestly need another hobby like I need a hole in the head. It's fun to watch those guys work though.

You can do all sorts of blacksmithing that does not require critical materials handling while heat treating and such. Knives and other cutting implements are just freaking tricky and I've seen a lot of pretty knives fail under relatively light use. One snapped just by literally falling off a counter onto a tile floor, blade broke into two pieces!!! It was a knife that my wife bought from her niece that was selling some of the poop Chinese ShlT buy-at-a-party cooking stuff. Supposed to have a lifetime warranty and when I called the company they said it was abuse in my part and they were not replacing it.

Sooooooooo, just to be an assh0le I posted pictures all over social media tearing down their "lifetime" warranty. Within days the company called me and said they are going to send a replacement. As soon as it came it I threw it in the garbage

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 09, 2024 8:23 pm Toaster ovens are the go to for tempering.
But, I need something bigger for powder coating. I can buy one fancy temp controller and have it do PC and temper duty

When my SIL had his ammo business he had (actually he still has) all sorts of nice commercial equipment including stupid fast bullet casting machines that spit thousands of bullets an hour and a freaking lead melting pot that could fit a small human that was delivered in a truck with a forklift when we moved here. For powder coating bullets? An oven he bought on Facebook Marketplace for a few buck, pretty much like yours.

Hey no sense pissing away money when you don't have to.

My brother does powder coating but is limited to items that can fit in a kitchen oven. He's been looking for a steel wardrobe/cabinet because I convinced him that we can insulate it and line it with nichrome wire and use the controls from a toaster oven to power it. I'm fairly certain we can wire in a thermostat with temp gauge too. He wants something that'll fit motorcycle frames and wheels.

So what does it smell like when quenching yellow hot steel in marmot piss? Is that something that knife makers do indoors?

Japhy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 1:07 am So what does it smell like when quenching yellow hot steel in marmot piss? Is that something that knife makers do indoors?

It uhh, smells like piss.

Justsomedude wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 12:25 am My brother does powder coating but is limited to items that can fit in a kitchen oven. He's been looking for a steel wardrobe/cabinet because I convinced him that we can insulate it and line it with nichrome wire and use the controls from a toaster oven to power it. I'm fairly certain we can wire in a thermostat with temp gauge too. He wants something that'll fit motorcycle frames and wheels.

Ditch the nichrome. Just get a couple of oven heating elements. Way more easy. Actually you may get away with one. You could also stack a couple 55 gallon drums end to end, to make a big ass tube to drop a frame in. Set it on top of an element.
I

I don't have a horse in this race and never will but, the redneckery has me thinking. Since there is no open flame and the heating element will be under the drum, could you use spray foam insulation on the outside?

He has another book "The Story of Knife Steel".

I wouldn't risk it unless you got some special stuff. Most polyurethane breaks down around 180 and 200 degrees F, and with the temperatures needed to set and cure powder coat being between 350 and 425 degrees, your drum will probably get close to hot enough to cause issues with the poly.

Freezer wrote: ↑Tue Sep 10, 2024 12:14 pm I don't have a horse in this race and never will but, the redneckery has me thinking. Since there is no open flame and the heating element will be under the drum, could you use spray foam insulation on the outside?

He has another book "The Story of Knife Steel".

No. I did some sciencing with a piece of pipe and a heating element. It’s WAY too hot for spray foam. Which sucks, because it’s easy.