Guns & Outdoors Forum

I'd never heard of it until I watched the most recent episode of "American RIfleman TV"
Apparently it's a 22LR case loaded with a non-heeled jacketed bullet.

In essence, it shoots a .210-caliber bullet launched from a .22 LR case. Initial offerings from Winchester include a 34-grain Jacketed Hollow Point, a 37-grain copper-plated lead bullet, a 42-grain Full Metal Jacket and, very interestingly, a 25-grain all-copper bullet Winchester calls the Copper Matrix. Initial velocity results of 1,300 (42-grain) to 1,750 fps (25-grain) indicate the 21 Sharp is slightly faster than standard-velocity .22 LR loads with more energy.

https://winchester.com/Blog/2024/09/Ple ... e-21-Sharp

My initial reaction is YAWNNNNNnnnnn
Your thoughts?

I don't see it sticking around long term.

Will it be more precise? I’d wager yes.
But a 22 LR can already be pretty damn precise. Hell, you can even hit coke cans at 100 yards with them. Balistically better? Yes with something other than a blob of lead as a projectile, no question on that.
Better on game? Probably with a better designed bullet.

As the article mentioned, if it had been done a LOT of years ago we’d be better for it. Now? Meh. It’ll fade away.

Yeah. . .if we had it a hundred years ago. . .

I dunno. . . My understanding of events is that the game of BR50 (.22LR Benchrest @ 50 yards) emerged and died out fairly quickly because competitiveness was ultimately dependent on how a rifle shot with a store-bought cartridge over which the shooter had no control other than to find a lot that worked. Whatever is done with the bullet, you're still crushing the back of the round off-center, which can be worked around with tight chambering, but ultimately does you no favors in the accuracy department.

The new round might have a significant ballistic edge, but then, so does the .223 Remington or any other centerfire .22.

You can reload .22 Hornet or 5.7x28.

I've got a pair of CZ 452's in .22LR that will knock over an empty 12 gauge shell at 50 yards with robotic monotony. What edge is this new round going to offer that going with a centerfire won't?

What is the cost of this .21 Sharp ammo? Ironically, I would be most interested in unjacketed, powder coated or wax-lubed lead for the economy.

There's an absolutely astronomical number of perfectly functional .22LR's in circulation that aren't wearing out. If you think I'm going to trade in a Winchester 1890/1906/62A for the current crop of cast/stamped/roll-pinned/plastic/trigger-tabbed budget rifles just for what this round might offer, you're smoking crack.

So while I like the concept of the new round, it basically has the same problem the .45 GAP did - it's trying to compete against an established and hugely entrenched juggernaut.

There Winchester goes again. The 22 Winchester Auto revisited, 100 years later. With good marketing I see it stinking around as long as they make ammo and GOOD rifles to shoot it in. With premium bullets the bench rest crowd may see advantages. Time will tell

I thought this was a joke at first...

Having shot in a RFBR National championship years ago,
The Eley distributor, From the Atlanta area, brought cases of EVERY. FREAKIN. LOT. that he had in stock. During breaks, he'd sell competitors a box of this lot, or that one, so they could see which one their barrel preferred. I can see a jacketed bullet being more consistent, have a better BC, yada yada yada.
An affordable 10-22 bbl, that I can hang off the front of my SS AMT 25/22 receiver MIGHT interest me to try it, I'm pretty doubtful that it will, but while slight, the chance isn't completely zero.

Truth be told, the VAST majority of the 22LR ammo that I have on hand, are subsonics of some stripe. I still have ~1/2 case of SK/Jagd SSHPs in "the cave" HV 22LR lives in the rare trans-sonic zone, and the wind does bad things to those bullets. I prefer SS for most of my rf shooting

Anyone remember the 17 rimfire that Win introduced, and was touting, a few years ago? Used an oddball rimfire case from, IIRC, some type of commercial blank. I see this new round having a similar life span. A couple of years of folks buying into the magazine shilling, "It's the best thing ever", then realizing it "ain't all that and a bag of chips" and then it'll slowly fade into oblivion on the island of unloved cartridges. That's why I'm not willing to spend much to try it out

Edited to add: The 2012 introduced 17Win Super Mag, based off a 27 cal nail gun blank

Just checked MidwayUSA, 21 Sharps is $17-18/100. 17WSM is OOS at $22-23/50

So a fancy .22LR that cant shoot standard .22 LR ammunition that drives a 34gr bullet at 1500 fps, or just get a 17 Mach 2 with its 17gr bullet at 2100 fps. At least the 17 is somewhat established and available in stores.

I am not your huckleberry.

GrapeApe wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 3:08 am An affordable 10-22 bbl, that I can hang off the front of my SS AMT 25/22 receiver MIGHT interest me to try it, I'm pretty doubtful that it will, but while slight, the chance isn't completely zero.

Probably the place to try it, to really wring it out, would be one of the clamped-barrel CZ 455 or 457's. Just thinking that a semi auto with all the weights and springs conceived for .22 LR may not be the best method for testing what the new kid might bring to the party.

If the "next great thing" peters out, you've still got a righteous .22LR bolt action and a curiosity barrel to hang on the wall with as snarky a plaque as you deem appropriate below it.

Yes, I know it's cynical and Fudd-ish to claim that our great-grandfather's cartridges solve all our problems, but you know. . .

The rock group The Killers asked, "When there's nowhere else to run, is there room for one more son?" When it comes to new cartridges, the answer is probably "No".

It may do well in California don't they have no lead bullets ?
I'm not a player as I'm fully entrenched with regular 22 rimfire.

Bigslug wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 12:54 pm Yes, I know it's cynical and Fudd-ish to claim that our great-grandfather's cartridges solve all our problems, but you know. . .

Ironically, I feel the same reason this round will fade away and the .22 LR prevail is similar to the reason that, much to your chagrin, manufacturers keep making cartridges to fit the AR, the AICS short action magazine, etc etc.... Similar to why the 6.5 Creedmoor took off and the .260 is all but dead: Logistics and ability to use existing platforms.

This might actually be a better mouse trap, but it's 100+ years too late.

Savage has announced 4 rifles in the new round
https://www.americanhunter.org/content/ ... re-rifles/

On a side note...
Since it headspaces on the rim, and uses 22LR cases, I wonder how long until "bubba" gets online complaining about the accuracy because he's shooting it in a standard 22LR rifle?

God gun advertisers can spew the poop.

https://www.americanhunter.org/content/ ... -21-sharp/

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:18 pm God gun advertisers can spew the ****.

https://www.americanhunter.org/content/ ... -21-sharp/

That's what Winchester pays them to do.

"It's the newest, greatest thing since sliced bread"

I love the ones where a new product has issues, "It didn't work like it was supposed to, however (insert company name here) assures me it's just a preproduction issue and it'll be fixed before they start shipping to the public."

I always wanted to take 22 mag cases and load them with light grain .224 bullets and rebarrel, just to be stupid. This sounds along those lines.

the 22 mag already uses .224 bullets IIRC

I used to go to church with a guy that was ranked nationally in the top 10 in IHMSA silhouette.
He built a rig to pull the bullets from factory 22 mag ammo and then replaced them with heavier bullets to take the rams down more consistently

Justsomedude wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 4:50 pm I always wanted to take 22 mag cases and load them with light grain .224 bullets and rebarrel, just to be stupid. This sounds along those lines.

You can use an RCBS .223 bullet collet puller. You’d have to make your own shell holder a seating die. With your skills and equipment? About 2 hours work. Get cracking

GrapeApe wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 5:09 pm the 22 mag already uses .224 bullets IIRC

I used to go to church with a guy that was ranked nationally in the top 10 in IHMSA silhouette.
He built a rig to pull the bullets from factory 22 mag ammo and then replaced them with heavier bullets to take the rams down more consistently

I meant your typical AR15 Spitzer style, copper jacketed.

Justsomedude wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2024 6:04 pm
I meant your typical AR15 Spitzer style, copper jacketed.

He used, IIRC, 50gr Hornady bullets. He was shooting them from a Contender, so COAL didn't really matter

What America needs. Another .22 (,21) Rimfire.

I see a boutique industry for the long range rimfire shooters making this a hit. A long boat tail bullet with a fast twist…. Hmmmmm

Don’t need one, don’t want one but hey glad they’re still putting new stuff out. Could be useful to some