Guns & Outdoors Forum

PFD45 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 8:30 pm Sounds like a REAL good reason to look for a .45-70.

sakodude wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 9:21 pm Whatcha going to kill with a 405 that a 350 wont? I use more 350gr bullets in my 45-70's than 405's. As a matter of fact, the only 405's I'm shooting currently are my trailboss plinkers.

Bigslug wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 4:05 am Well. . . you could have bought that same Uberti in the the 1876's original .45-75 chambering. Bigger boiler room and a nice long neck for heavier bullets. If you want to effectively throw 405's from a toggle lock gun, that would be the place to start.

BUT. . .If I can get nine gallon jugs / six feet worth of water penetration out of a wee little 230 grain cast handgun bullet at 830 fps, I have to wonder what an extra 120 grains and 500 fps won't do for you.

Elk Creek wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:37 am Oh I’d say your 350 grain loads will work just fine. The extra 50 grains going slower would probably be a wash…even on grizzzz

sakodude wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:38 pm Question still stands. I'd wager 45-60 accumulated any number of large critters in it's day so why try to make a magnum out of something that is not.

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 5:35 am

sakodude wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:38 pm Question still stands. I'd wager 45-60 accumulated any number of large critters in it's day so why try to make a magnum out of something that is not.

Oh it did and Winchester used to sell the gun as a Western dangerous game rifle/cartridge. I’m just so close to a 405 load that I’m kind’a curious if I can make it work. I think I’d be cool to have a short range hammer of Thor in a true saddle gun.

Bigslug wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:30 pm IMR4198 is one of the more popular cast bullet propellants, and Lyman lists it from trapdoor-level .45-70 loads to Matt Quigley's .45-110 and into the toasty loads of the .450 Marlin and .458 Win Mag. I see zero reasons one couldn't dial back the trapdoor loads slightly for the reduced capacity of the .45-60 and working to a happy level.

But as I like to say, bison nearly went extinct from 400-500 grain bullets delivered at longish ranges at muzzle velocities that were pretty pokey by modern standards. You're running a brush gun at what will be a shorter stand-off distance. Whether it's 350 or 400 grains, or a cowboy or modern-level load, you'll have a higher impact speed at your distances than the bison-cullers did at theirs. A hard, non-expanding bullet out of your rifle will have enough penetration for a T-Rex, and a soft one will make a large hole deep enough for anything on the continent. A hollow point should absolutely crumple deer and pig.

My Dad's the buffalo era geek in the family, and we've played with a lot of .45-70 across the whole trapdoor to modern spectrum. You aren't going to make a flat trajectory out of it with any load, and your saddle configuration carbine isn't the platform to play the indirect fire / mortar game of the guys with the 30" Sharps, rolling blocks, and High Walls. You have an effective tool as is - little need to try to expand its box, and you aren't likely to get much practical gain if you do. Load 350's to a comfortable level and have fun with it.

sakodude wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 9:37 am

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 5:35 am

sakodude wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2024 11:38 pm Question still stands. I'd wager 45-60 accumulated any number of large critters in it's day so why try to make a magnum out of something that is not.

Oh it did and Winchester used to sell the gun as a Western dangerous game rifle/cartridge. I’m just so close to a 405 load that I’m kind’a curious if I can make it work. I think I’d be cool to have a short range hammer of Thor in a true saddle gun.

I suspect your 76 has a weight advantage over my Marlin 1895 CB but I can tell you hammer of Thor load in mine are anything but pleasant! I've tried 500gr cast and they loosen filling!! My business loads in that rifle are Hornady 350gr RNSP's and while not mild by any stretch, they are very manageable. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot any game with it.
Not saying you shouldn't try, just can't see any advantage to doing so in that beautiful rifle of yours.

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 6:31 pm So that’s kind’a where my thinking is. Not looking for flat trajectory since this is an offhand shooting of opportunity or SD. Basically a 405gr load even at a modest 1,500-1,600 fps will give me a lever action speed Casull+ with negligible recoil!!!

Bigslug wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 2:53 am

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Wed Oct 30, 2024 6:31 pm So that’s kind’a where my thinking is. Not looking for flat trajectory since this is an offhand shooting of opportunity or SD. Basically a 405gr load even at a modest 1,500-1,600 fps will give me a lever action speed Casull+ with negligible recoil!!!

YMMV, but we've found the 20" 1895 Marlin to transition from "This is a lot of fun!" to "This stings more than a little" at around that speed. You're basically a magnum 12 gauge at that point.

The gun will tell you when it's time to stop.

Justsomedude wrote: ↑Fri Nov 01, 2024 6:29 am I've never heard of the 405JSP.

Big Al1 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 02, 2024 1:24 pm I've been thinking on this one! Your biggest issue will be correct seating depth and a GOOD crimp!! I've tried putting a 405 cast in a .45-60 case and the case mouth was up around the ogive!