Interesting article on cartridges that can stop a Grizzly charge

[Wambli Ska]

Actually written by a guy with the right credentials.

https://www.americanhunter.org/content/ ... artridges/

#1 s the old 45-70

The .357 making the list of top 8 was a bit of a surprise but hey he knows better than I ever will.

[Bigslug]

He lost me at "energy"

[CPJ 2.0]

He lost me at "energy"

He lost me at has “killed four bears”.

Inadequate data set.

Not to mention the .454 and .44 ahead of a 12 gauge. If we are speaking from a pure energy standpoint. If we are talking from a rapid fire standpoint, he’s still full of poop…..any of the rifle/shotgun rounds are real life kick your **** in the dirt loads. You may run a lever quicker than a bolt, but you ain’t running either faster than a pump, and certainly not faster than a semi.



Sounds like a professional NRA instructor.

[shotgunshooter3]

This will probably be an unpopular opinion around here, but IMO the best tool for bear defense is bear spray. Nothing is 100% obviously but a lot of fantasies about which sidearm to stop a bear work on the precarious assumption that the user will be able to hit a fist sized target bouncing towards them at breakneck speed, under stress, in time, after drawing from a less than ideally placed holster. A massive spicy cloud at high pressure is probably more likely to disrupt Yogi's attempt than a misplaced, or missed entirely, gunshot.

Of course, with that said, there's a reason in bear country hunting videos you usually see the guide carrying a gun as well. Kind of a different scenario when you're in a hunting party.

[CPJ 2.0]

This will probably be an unpopular opinion around here, but IMO the best tool for bear defense is bear spray. Nothing is 100% obviously but a lot of fantasies about which sidearm to stop a bear work on the precarious assumption that the user will be able to hit a fist sized target bouncing towards them at breakneck speed, under stress, in time, after drawing from a less than ideally placed holster. A massive spicy cloud at high pressure is probably more likely to disrupt Yogi's attempt than a misplaced, or missed entirely, gunshot.

Of course, with that said, there's a reason in bear country hunting videos you usually see the guide carrying a gun as well. Kind of a different scenario when you're in a hunting party.

We can be unpopular together.

[shotgunshooter3]

This will probably be an unpopular opinion around here, but IMO the best tool for bear defense is bear spray. Nothing is 100% obviously but a lot of fantasies about which sidearm to stop a bear work on the precarious assumption that the user will be able to hit a fist sized target bouncing towards them at breakneck speed, under stress, in time, after drawing from a less than ideally placed holster. A massive spicy cloud at high pressure is probably more likely to disrupt Yogi's attempt than a misplaced, or missed entirely, gunshot.

Of course, with that said, there's a reason in bear country hunting videos you usually see the guide carrying a gun as well. Kind of a different scenario when you're in a hunting party.

We can be unpopular together.

Did we just become best friends?

[Zee]

Hell, put a bear in a round pen and let’s see him do some ballistic testing from inside. Without speculation.

[Zee]

Hahahahaha!!!!!

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Anybody see the irony?

[Zee]

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[CPJ 2.0]

This will probably be an unpopular opinion around here, but IMO the best tool for bear defense is bear spray. Nothing is 100% obviously but a lot of fantasies about which sidearm to stop a bear work on the precarious assumption that the user will be able to hit a fist sized target bouncing towards them at breakneck speed, under stress, in time, after drawing from a less than ideally placed holster. A massive spicy cloud at high pressure is probably more likely to disrupt Yogi's attempt than a misplaced, or missed entirely, gunshot.

Of course, with that said, there's a reason in bear country hunting videos you usually see the guide carrying a gun as well. Kind of a different scenario when you're in a hunting party.

We can be unpopular together.

Did we just become best friends?

tmp.gif (3.13 MiB) Viewed 3281 times

[CPJ 2.0]

@Zed

The irony of an NRA mag being nothing more than marketing wank with clickable links in their articles?

No. Totally missed that.

[Zee]

Well, that……and they are picturing inadequate rounds in an article about stopping a bear.

[CPJ 2.0]

Well, that……and they are picturing inadequate rounds in an article about stopping a bear.

But you see the Hornady box.

Marketing wank.

[jkp]

Yeah. It says Hornady so it must be good. And the guy has killed four evil bears like the one in Revenant so what do y'all know!?

[Wambli Ska]

So I guess 4 defensive kills and 41 years TEACHING Bear defense is not enough credentials. Oh well…

[CPJ 2.0]

So I guess 4 defensive kills and 41 years TEACHING Bear defense is not enough credentials. Oh well…

As a matter of fact it’s not.

There’s almost zero data in the article. Aside from 4 bear kills, only ONE mention of ONE cartridge he’s used to do such
( .454) It’s all advertising.

I’ve seen some a fair number of “instructors” make some wild claims. Pure **** poop claims, actually. Amusing. Actually hilarious.

So someone claiming 41 years of teaching doesn’t impress me in the LEAST, with no data to back it up.

[Bigslug]

Well, that……and they are picturing inadequate rounds in an article about stopping a bear.

I'd have been inclined to write in some form of caveat about the .338 and .375 - capable cartridges, yes, but in a Canada/Alaska setting, are they scoped for open country shots on caribou, or for CQB on dangerous game? A 26" .338 with a 4.5-14 may not be the right tool.

"OBJECTS IN CROSSHAIRS MAY ALREADY BE EATING YOU"

[breamfisher]

A friend lived in Alaska for 30 years. Killed 3 grizzlies. Two with 12 gauge slugs and with a .30-06. All were defensive.
He said the only guys who carried handguns were pilots in case they had to ditch, and folks who carried a backup to a long gun. The pilots also had a 12 gauge loaded with slugs for bear and other ammo for other uses, but it was racked while flying.
Everyone who carried for bear had ac12 gauge pump loaned with slugs. Maybe a .45-70, but it was before the Guide Gun, so they weren't usually handy in length.
The '06 kill was a bear that charged him hunting. He knew how to run a bolt action, but found them slow in a stressful situation, and a hunting scope on low power was too much for realistic shot placement when b'rer bear is 10 yards away.

[Zee]

So I guess 4 defensive kills and 41 years TEACHING Bear defense is not enough credentials. Oh well…

As a matter of fact it’s not.

There’s almost zero data in the article. Aside from 4 bear kills, only ONE mention of ONE cartridge he’s used to do such
( .454) It’s all advertising.

I’ve seen some a fair number of “instructors” make some wild claims. Pure **** **** claims, actually. Amusing. Actually hilarious.

So someone claiming 41 years of teaching doesn’t impress me in the LEAST, with no data to back it up.

What he said. It was an advertisement bit. No data. No details.

Sales pitch.

We are better than that.

[GrapeApe]

My choices would be a 12ga with a HARD slug, like a Brenneke, or my 50 Beowulf with an appropriate bullet. Ballistically, it's pretty much equal to the 500S&W in either a 7 or 10 shot semi-auto with rapid reload capability. So loaded with the same bullet(s) that folks feel are appropriate for the 500 smith

[breamfisher]

BTW, something my friend told me about grizzlies is that with their fat layer, they are "self-sealing." Bleeding out is slow, and not much of a blood trail unless you use a big bullet.

[jkp]

The top rated gun for bear self defense is a rifle? Really?

Sign me up for a quality auto loading shotgun with slugs.

[sakodude]

Doubt there is a publication anywhere that is not shilling for their advertisers to some degree. To me anyway, that does not necessarily negate the guys experience and opinions. probably some nuggets of wisdom in there someplace.
Me, I generally carry a .357 mag when I'm prowing the woods and don't feel under gunned. I think if I routinely found myself in country where the critters can eat me then I'd go the 12ga slug route. For me, that would be the fastest, most effective rounds on target platform to save my life.
All theoretical of course, only ever seen one bear in my life and he was just waking up from a nap and not to interested in me I don't think

[Castle]

Oh, you guys would have an aneurysm on some of these others forums, they're hilarious.
Some of those folks think changing out their HST HPs to hardcast solids in their G19 is adequate protection in grizzly country and they're quick to point out some outlier article where some Alaska guide managed to kill a grizzly with his 9mm. The logic goes something like this, "It's obviously been done before and it worked... it'll work for me to."

I just think, "Yeah, good luck with that... Bait!"

Given the choice between a 45-70 and a 9mm... yeah, I'll take the 45-70.

Folks on some other forums can convince themselves of anything as long as they don't actually have to prove it.

[CPJ 2.0]

Could the guy teach how to shoot at a charging bear? Most likely.

But pulling “facts” out of your ass is just that.