Guns & Outdoors Forum

The first is a pin-fire double 12 bore by Thomas Newton of King Street, Manchester with some home made brass cartridges. And the second is a Daw's patent of 1861; which was the first true centre-fire gun. This is a double 12 bore made on the Daw's action by Frederick Gates of Derby circa 1863 with an original Daws centre-fire cartridge. Just a couple of oldies from my collection.

Very cool! Can we get a better look at the stocks and the checkering?

Cool
Love old underlever guns.

WOW they are in such good shape!
Are the insides strong enough to shoot?

Diver43 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 2:59 pm WOW they are in such good shape!
Are the insides strong enough to shoot?

I'm not the OP

They are both Damascus barreled.
The top one I'd probably be leary of shooting .
The bottom one looks really good on the outside.

Those awesome! Didn't even know there was such a thing as a pin fire shotgun.

Damascus has gotten an overblown bad reputation. Plenty of them still out there putting out billowing clouds of sulfur smelling smoke firing gently crafted black powder loads.

Those two examples are just beautiful!!! I love old doubles

This is the moderator from MS. He has quite a collection, and I've always loved seeing what he is shooting or acquired.

A very interesting man and great addition to the forum.

Good to see you here Mike!

Very happy that he’s now here

sakodude wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 4:33 pm Those awesome! Didn't even know there was such a thing as a pin fire shotgun.

Me neither. What's involved with loading shells for something like this?

Love a Jones patent double!

Zorba wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 2:44 am

sakodude wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 4:33 pm Those awesome! Didn't even know there was such a thing as a pin fire shotgun.

Me neither. What's involved with loading shells for something like this?

I'm trying to imagine some kind of fixture that lets you plug in a percussion cap or modern primer sideways in some kind of reliable, repeatable fashion. I hope somebody posts pics before my brain breaks.

NICE guns!

I would be interested in knowing what make of gun Junk Collector has posted.

The two guns are both well in Proof and can be used for black powder. Pin-fire guns were all made in the black powder era but I do have some smokeless pin-fire cartridges in my collection. Good Damascus barrels are as strong as any and I have submitted quite a few to the Birmingham Proof House for testing and firing for smokeless powders and not had one fail yet. I do ensure that they stand a good chance and are also examined by an expert Gun Maker for his opinion first. No real point in submitting the pin-fire as B.P. cartridges are really easy to load. The pin extends through the case rim and into a small recess that holds a normal muzzle loading type percussion cap. Hammer strikes pin and off she goes.

The Daw's patent gun does not have a very strong lock-up of the action although I know of at least one that has passed Nitro Proof. I'll continue to feed mine with Black Powder cartridges which are easy to make. Just made a batch this afternoon. Frederick Gates is a quite interesting fellow. All Gates guns are superb in quality. He worked with Orlando Smith of London Street, Derby before setting up on his own in 1869 at 4, Market Head, Derby where he later sold his business to Robert Dobson and moved to San Francisco of all places. A friend had a .360 pin-fire double rook rifle by Gates. I'll see if I can dig out a photo from my files.

Both guns are of around the same age and would date to around 1863.

If anyone has any old English guns I have built up quite a library of information and may be able to help in putting some meat on the bones. Next time I may post an interesting old American gun in my collection. Apologies to Freezer who may have seen some of the photos before.

It's from your side of the pond.
A Stephen Grant 500 BPE made for the Duke of Leeds in 1878.

Now that's downright pretty

No prob;em buddy, I love looking at your collection. Keep on posting.

Stephen Grant was a top flight London Maker. Do you use it?

T'owd Mon wrote: ↑Sat Sep 09, 2023 12:55 pm Stephen Grant was a top flight London Maker. Do you use it?

Not yet Mike

I went as far as acquiring brass but then found out it's Provence.

Many years have passed since then and things change.
I'm going to order some ammo this week.....and get brave.

Here are a few more pictures of it.



It has a cripple stock for a right handed left eye dominant shooter....that's me.

Just the thing to take to Africa!