case forming

[sakodude]

As mentioned in a previous post I recently acquired a Sharps in 25-35 WCF. Now ammo and or brass are basically unavailable outside the collector market so I am trying to form cases from 30-30 brass.
Most accounts I've read online suggest issues with wrinkles and or crushed shoulders but so far mine are looking good in that regard. They come out long but trimming is no issue.
The problem I'm having is they will not chamber even trimmed to minimum case length. I suspect the problem is the shoulder not being set back far enough even though I am bottoming out the sizing die.
Anyone have any ideas or suggestions?

[GrapeApe]

Could be neck thickness too

A different shellholder MIGHT be thinner, OR they make "competition" shellholders that are different thicknesses, but I doubt they make them for the 30-30 head size.
Slightly shaving a small amount off the bottom of the forming die MIGHT give you what you need, if it is the shoulder.

Otherwise, you might need to ream or turn the necks

[CPJ 2.0]

Sacrifice a shell holder by sanding off the top a little at a time.
Sandpaper on a flat surface (mirror or glass etc) and some earl of choice, sand to and fro.
Check.
Repeat.

[sakodude]

Good suggestions both. I think I'll start with the shell holder first,it's cheaper to replace!
I don't think neck thickness is an issue just yet since I'm unable to chamber an empty case. Once a bullet is seated. that could be another issue though.

[sakodude]

You Know Paul, thinking back 30+ years reminded me that shaving the forming die was exactly what I had to do with my 40-65 for the very same reason.
Of course I worked in a manufacturing environment back then so getting it into a lathe was easy.
Must be something with Sharps chambers being very tight.

[Bigslug]

Good suggestion on the shell holder, but my gut reaction is neck thickness also.

When Dad & I have needed to get REALLY nerdy for one of his cast-bullets-from-a-dinosaur-shooter projects, we do a swage cast of the chamber by filling a fired case up to about halfway up the neck with molten lead, then hammer a pure lead bullet down the bore until it swages out to fill the throat and leade. Also involved in that process is measuring the neck wall thickness. That gives you (a.) the ideal bullet diameter that you need, and also (b.) how thick a case you can get away with while using that bullet diameter - - taking into account that the thing has to chamber and you need enough room for the case to open up and release the bullet.

[CPJ 2.0]

Good suggestions both. I think I'll start with the shell holder first,it's cheaper to replace!
I don't think neck thickness is an issue just yet since I'm unable to chamber an empty case. Once a bullet is seated. that could be another issue though.

If it comes to the die, I know a guy. So do you.

[sakodude]

Good suggestions both. I think I'll start with the shell holder first,it's cheaper to replace!
I don't think neck thickness is an issue just yet since I'm unable to chamber an empty case. Once a bullet is seated. that could be another issue though.

If it comes to the die, I know a guy. So do you.

Thank you, I will keep that in mind.

[Wambli Ska]

Ok, I hope I’m making sense with this.

Neck thickness is not an issue until you work with loaded ammo because brass should be sized to the correct OD on the neck regardless of brass thickness, UNLESS, you are trying to chamber sized brass that you already expanded the neck on for reloading which could easily stop it from chambering since now you have an oversized neck.

I’d run a case through your bullet seating die to try your finished product (dummy round) and then decide where to go from there.

[sakodude]

Big Al to the rescue, Al had some factory cases that he very generously donated to my Sharps project and they fit like a glove.
Thank you Al, can't tell you how much I appreciate your kindness!

[sakodude]

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Side by side view. Factory on left, re sized 30-30 on right. Pretty clear the shoulder is not setting back far enough. Lee die, wondering if I should try another brand.
Thought?

[CPJ 2.0]

I’d call Lee, as that’s not even remotely close.

[sakodude]

I’d call Lee, as that’s not even remotely close.

I just sent an email with the photo so we will see what they say.

[CPJ 2.0]

If you didn’t anneal the cases first, I would. That’s a lot
If brass to move.

[sakodude]

If you didn’t anneal the cases first, I would. That’s a lot
If brass to move.

I didn't anneal. In the research it seemed about 50-50 pro vs con with annealing but probably worth a try.

[CPJ 2.0]

I don’t think there’s any cons, honestly. The brass is already hard, and you’re making it harder by squishing it.

[sakodude]

I don’t think there’s any cons, honestly. The brass is already hard, and you’re making it harder by squishing it.

wrinkles and collapsed shoulders are the most mentioned. I'm going to try it today, see if I get any different result.

[GrapeApe]

When it comes to comparing, I'd use a fired case, once you have one. Factory brass is normally closer to minimum specs to fit all factory chambers.

[sakodude]

I’d call Lee, as that’s not even remotely close.

I just sent an email with the photo so we will see what they say.

Well Lee's response was about what I expected. They say their dies are not designed nor intended for case forming but resizing formed brass.
They suggested annealing as you did and multiple passes through the die.

[CPJ 2.0]

You know….
You may run it though once un annealed, then anneal, and run again.
Maybe prevent the crushed shoulders? Maybe I’m talking out of my ass.

[sakodude]

Well here's the latest, Annealing did the trick. The cases, while not quite factory spec will now chamber and can be fire formed to my chamber.
Thank you all for your advice and guidance proving once again the members of this forum stand out above the others.

[GrapeApe]

I'd have never thought of annealing. Haven't ever done it

[sakodude]

I'd have never thought of annealing. Haven't ever done it

I had not ether. learned a neat trick on the tube. Find a deep well socket that the case will fit inside, I dropped a screw in the bottom so the case shoulder and neck protruded. Use a drill motor to slowly spin the case in the flame of a torch, drop in water to cool. Worked pretty slick.

[GrapeApe]

Cool

[Big Al1]

So I did a little experiment.! Thought I'd try resizing a .30-30 case to 25-35, just for science!! I have a lot of .30-30 case since I often resize them for other rounds, like .32-40 and .375 Win. without problems, except they come out a little short but still work! I have RCBS dies for the .25-35, lubed a .30-30 case and ran it in the sizing die. I had to grunt a little bit to size it, but it came out perfect, just a little long, by .050 compared to a factory case. Although it doesn't look like it in the picture, the shoulders are the same, and it chambered nicely in my .25-35. There are some stretch marks, but no wrinkles!

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