Guns & Outdoors Forum

I think I posted this data on one of the iterations of the old forum, but had forgotten about it. In one of Zee's thread he recovered some 22 bullets from a pig that he shot.
I predicted that they would be subsonic.
In the 4 ammos I tested, one of the firearms was my former S&W 422 6"
If you'll notice, none of the "supersonic" ammo was supersonic from that length barrel.
I also know the "SuperSonic" CCI segmented HPs aren't supersonic from my current 6" S&W victory.
Of the 4 ammo's I tested, the Remington Golden bullets are the only one still made, I think, however, you can still get an idea about how barrel length affects 22LR ammo


I shot 100 rounds of each of the four major bulk packed ammos. 25 rounds each from 4 different barrel lengths.
The ammos: Remington Golden Bullets 36gr Hollow Point Lot#BH01B1( I think.. hard to read)
Winchester Xperts 36gr HP lot#1TL41N
Federal "Value Pack" #750 36gr HP lot#1BJ338
Winchester Dynapoints 40gr HP lot# 1TK421

The test guns:
1) S&W422 semi auto 6"
2) CZ Ultra Lux Bolt action 28"
3) AMT Lightning (10/22 copy) Boyds 18" bull barrel treated with Moly Fusion
4) Mosseberg 151M(b) Semi Auto 20" barrel

To make it easier to read, I'll refer to the guns by number only in the data.

Remington GB's
Gun- Failure to fires- Average Vel- -----Extreme spread - SD
1) ----2*------------------856----------------277-------------56
2)-----0------------------1174----------------82--------------17
3)-----0------------------1196----------------73--------------23
4)-----0------------------1182---------------122-------------33
Average-----------------1102---------------138.5----------32.25

Winchester Xperts
1)-----2*-----------------1056---------------79--------------18
2)-----0------------------1178---------------69---------------16
3)-----0------------------1212---------------33----------------8
4)-----**-----------------1182--------------62---------------18
Average-----------------1157----------------60.75----------15

Federal #750
1)-----2*-----------------1054--------------176--------------36
2)-----0-------------------1188---------------52--------------14
3)-----0-------------------1228---------------77--------------20
4)-----***----------------1186--------------115--------------18
Average-------------------1164------------105-------------22

Winchester Dynapoints
1)-----2*------------------974-------------123----------------34
2)-----0-------------------1075------------105----------------29
3)-----0-------------------1104------------150----------------33
4)-----0-------------------1069-------------88-----------------24
Average------------------1055.5----------116.5-------------30

Notes:
* 422 has the smallest firing pin strike area of the 4 guns tested
** Every round struck went off but the mossberg jammed 4 times and I had to bump the bolt handle forward 8 times to fully close the bolt
*** 1 failure to fire when struck. one jam

That is interesting and a great report. I still have a couple bricks of the Winchester Xperts.

I have a truckload of the Federal Value pack and the Winchester bulk pack stuff. Very rarely encounter any problems but they do occur. Good info, thanks for posting.

That is a huge spread in velocity! Across all brands and guns.
Nice work! And good info

thanks

Thanks for sharing. Have you ever run any match ammo over the chronograph?

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Tue Oct 24, 2023 3:21 pm Thanks for sharing. Have you ever run any match ammo over the chronograph?

Doubtful, (I don't remember any) when I was shooting nationally, an ammo either shot good, or it didn't and I wanted it to be subsonic for less wind drift

Seems like anything over 18" is just slowing you down, but I'm not giving up the sight radius on MY CZ-452 Ultra Lux. No sir, not doin' it!

GrapeApe wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 2:21 am ........ I wanted it to be subsonic for less wind drift

Could you explain why this would be so? I would think time of flight would show more effect on a slower projectile.

jwv2023 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 4:22 pm

Could you explain why this would be so? I would think time of flight would show more effect on a slower projectile.

In most cases, where the bullet is supersonic for the entire flight, it is.
The 22LR is in the transonic zone and it behaves differently.
Using an online ballistic calculator and an average BC of 0.130, with 1200fps MV and a 10mph crosswind you have 5.36" wind drift @ 100 yards.
Changing nothing but the MV down to 1050fps the drift decreases to 4.31.
Since the subsonic doesn't go through the transonic zone, you net over 1" less wind drift @ 100
You do gain over an inch of additional drop with the subsonic, however drop is more of a constant unless you have a head or tail wind.
The subsonic also carries its velocity better. The calculator I used shows it's still going 905fps a loss of 145fps, the 1200fps load is down to 1020fps, having lost 180fps

Robert A. Rinkers book "Understanding Firearm Ballistics" explains it a LOT better than I can
https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Fi ... 0964559854

“The subsonic also carries its velocity better. The calculator I used shows it's still going 905fps a loss of 145fps, the 1200fps load is down to 1020fps, having lost 180fps“

That is somewhat deceptive the subsonic value is is over 16% of the initial velocity. The supersonic velocity is down 15% and crossed the supersonic boundary at about 1125 ft/sec

If you look at Sierra's data, the BC actually goes up quite a bit on a 22 bullet as it slows down, the jump from super to subsonic is rather large, and the actual velocity will probably be quite a bit higher than my figures using a fixed BC.
Y'all are asking me about it, and I already know the answer. If you want to know more or get argumentative about it, do you own research and find out for yourself.
Then you'll be able to say "I found this" Instead of, "I read on a gun forum that..."

Bigslug wrote: ↑Sat Oct 28, 2023 2:08 am Seems like anything over 18" is just slowing you down, but I'm not giving up the sight radius on MY CZ-452 Ultra Lux. No sir, not doin' it!

If you notice, it also had lower ES and SD in half of the ammos. A guy I used to discuss such things with on a RF forum postulated the longer barrel helped with that

GrapeApe wrote: ↑Sun Oct 29, 2023 10:36 am
Y'all are asking me about it, and I already know the answer. If you want to know more or get argumentative about it, do you own research and find out for yourself.

At least you’re furthering the discussion, inspiring conversation, and all around promoting ballistics education instead of being a pompous ass by asking how dare someone question your superior knowledge.

I noticed that the 18"AMT was the only gun in your test with a moly treated barrel, could that have been responsible for the higher velocity over a 2" longer barrel? Also, the round count of each barrel and condition of the bores can have an impact on the velocities. On the site "ballistics by the inch" they use the same barrel and just keep cutting it down an inch at a time to eliminate any variables.

I have read quite a lot stating the optimum 22lr barrel length is about 16in. What I have not seen until now is a measurement. There must be many parameters that impact barrel length and it should be expected that subsonic ammunition will not behave the same as the hv ammo.
The key point I got from these measurements is the huge velocity variance in some of the ammo measured.

Every barrel is a creature unto itself. ask Linefinder and Sixgun about their "identical" barrels

Concerning the Molyfusion, no clue see above. Guy hawking it sent me some to try for free, so I tried it on one barrel, saw no real benefit and tossed the rest of it.

GrapeApe wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:02 pm Concerning the Molyfusion, no clue see above. Guy hawking it sent me some to try for free, so I tried it on one barrel, saw no real benefit and tossed the rest of it.

So I'm assuming that you chronographed the rounds through the barrel before and after the moly coating to determine any change in velocity, what did you find?

nope, guy was touting accuracy improvement and easier cleaning, I saw neither.
Normally not concerned with velocity in 22lr ammo, since it's not something I can change.
I just did this test to see how different barrels performed with the same ammo, and honestly IIRC, boredom. I lived only 4mi from the range at the time

Just did some looking online and it appears it is no longer on the market. If it did half the stuff the hawker said it would, I expect it would be EVERYWHERE by now. Glad mine was "free99"