M 16 fan here

[Gene L]

No way is the US going to replace the M 16 M4 with a 14 pound rifle. It won't happen, regardless of the rumors and regardless of the "improvements" over the lowly M 16 platform. Taking the improvements individually you can see some gain, but collectively, they don't add up to a 14 pound whole.

[Varmintmist]

Its kind of trying to find a problem where there isnt one. Is the AR platform in .224 the absolute best in every situation? Nope. In slightly different configurations which it can be easily modded into it aint bad across the board.

[GrapeApe]

Being one of the easiest platforms to modify, I don't see it going anywhere any time soon. New calibers/cartridges? Maybe, but I suspect, due to NATO, it'll stay in widespread military service in 5.56 for the rest of my lifetime.

[shotgunshooter3]

The M4 platform likely isn't going anywhere in our lifetimes, though it may ultimately find itself in a more REMF type role similar to the M1 Carbine.

The new rifle has its place, and the 14# statistic that you're so fixated on is with all the gizmos added. It's designed to defeat modern body armor, and sacrifices had to be made somewhere. I say that as someone that will likely never have to huff it up Sand Hill, of course.

[Gene L]

The civilian version is something like 8 pounds, but the military version has a thicker barrel, a silencer/suppressor, an optic and I believe a larger magazine. I think the rifle talk is largely influenced by folks who don't have any sympathy for the poor foot soldier forced to hump a 14 pound rifle, the new rifle will flourish. Or when the military gets an unlimited budget. I feel someone needs to get input from the infantry soldier.

[Bigslug]

I'm thinking we're not too far from the soldier only having to "hump" a laser designator about the size of a banana that calls down a particle beam from orbit, and that this effort to generate "The Next Great Infantry Rifle" is just a grand spinning of wheels.

[Japhy]

I'm thinking we're not too far from the soldier only having to "hump" a laser designator about the size of a banana that calls down a particle beam from orbit, and that this effort to generate "The Next Great Infantry Rifle" is just a grand spinning of wheels.

Either that or the designator is on a remotely operated drone. That way the operator can keep his/her/its coffee mug at hand and keep tabs on social media

[Freezer]

Hevi max may finially be getting his wish! A bigger, heavier weapon for manly men.

[Japhy]

Having fired an M1 Garand a few times I remember thinking this thing is stupid heavy at just under 10lbs. 14lbs? Yikes

[PFD45]

I have a 14 lb .22-250.
I carry it from the tailgate to the bench.

[Diver43]

If If I remember right a M-16A2 was around 8 1/2 pounds. 14 /2 pounds with full ruck and ammo would be a lot to hump in comparison

[Centermass]

The new rifle is coming.
It will provide us modern armor defeat capability.
I personally know a handful of the people who tested it. Weight was discussed - at length.
It will first be fielded to combat soldiers in select units. The initial order was 250K, for all five components.

[CPJ 2.0]

So dumb question time, is it “legal” to shoot someone on the face in a war time setting?

[Zee]

Yes

[Diver43]

So dumb question time, is it “legal” to shoot someone on the face in a war time setting?

Not dumb. YES, however the average Soldier is trained to shoot center mass

[Bigslug]

The new rifle is coming.
It will provide us modern armor defeat capability.
I personally know a handful of the people who tested it. Weight was discussed - at length.
It will first be fielded to combat soldiers in select units. The initial order was 250K, for all five components.

So next dumb question: Are we finally going to accept that select-fire capability in an individual infantry weapon - at any level above pistol ammo - is just uncontrollable silliness?

[Centermass]

So dumb question time, is it “legal” to shoot someone on the face in a war time setting?

In certain units it is highly encouraged.

[Centermass]

The new rifle is coming.
It will provide us modern armor defeat capability.
I personally know a handful of the people who tested it. Weight was discussed - at length.
It will first be fielded to combat soldiers in select units. The initial order was 250K, for all five components.

So next dumb question: Are we finally going to accept that select-fire capability in an individual infantry weapon - at any level above pistol ammo - is just uncontrollable silliness?

So, it’s not silliness. If you’re training properly, like the army used to do and some units still do, you use select fire capability to continue suppression or continue rounds on target for the duration. It varies the fire rates so not everyone is reloading within seconds of each other.
Having fire team A on semi, and fire team B on three round produces great effects for maneuvering onto the enemy.

[Diver43]

So next dumb question: Are we finally going to accept that select-fire capability in an individual infantry weapon - at any level above pistol ammo - is just uncontrollable silliness?

So, it’s not silliness. If you’re training properly, like the army used to do and some units still do, you use select fire capability to continue suppression or continue rounds on target for the duration. It varies the fire rates so not everyone is reloading within seconds of each other.
Having fire team A on semi, and fire team B on three round produces great effects for maneuvering onto the enemy.

Wait, they don't teach that anymore?

We were taught that tactic for offensive and defensive scenarios

[Waipapa13]

The new rifle is coming.
It will provide us modern armor defeat capability.
I personally know a handful of the people who tested it. Weight was discussed - at length.
It will first be fielded to combat soldiers in select units. The initial order was 250K, for all five components.

I guess that any army has the institutional memory of its latest war when it makes its decisions going forward, but I can't help but think that a 14 pound rifle plus gear is going to pretty detrimental to effectiveness in combat in the jungle, bush, or any sustained dismounted operations.

To what degree are the Russians or the Chinese using armour?

[Centermass]

To the degree that M855A1 is not as effective as it once was

[Waipapa13]

To the degree that M855A1 is not as effective as it once was

Damn, I'm honestly surprised, I would not have thought that bodyarmour would be considered that widely available to them in the future scenarios, Ukraine is probably skewing my perceptions, as it's not as though Russia's best and brightest are being put forward.

I'm not against a bigger calibre per se, but it is interesting to see that the battle pack is looking like 170 rounds vs 210 in 5.56,

200 rounds of 7.62 was standard load for the SLR everywhere.

[Centermass]

Here’s an update -

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/new-arm ... Dera%20gun.

I don’t know where folks are getting the extreme weight at. It’s not a heavy rifle.
The NGSW - replacing the M249 - has some heft. But, so does the M249

The 6.8 round was tested - a lot.

Of the many modernization efforts the Army is running after, this one had the best working group and decision makers.

As we look at conducting Large Scale Combat Operations, we have to take a look at lessons learned, what’s currently going on, and what we think may happen. It’s not a wicked problem, but it is a problem of risk acceptance and risk avoidance.
Having a heavier rifle, that improves lethality and accuracy, falls into the risk acceptance bucket. We do not anticipate Joe carrying this rifle through the jungles of south east Asia for weeks at a time. we do anticipate island hoping in the indo-pacom theater. But, still not bushwhacking or even having to hump everything from Normandy to Paris…

Ukraine is killing Russian ADA assets with paper and balsa wood drones laden with TNT. No one, in the history of Arial warfare anticipated anything like that happening.

So, if having a rifle that is two pounds heavier and shoots a bigger bullet helps defeat the unanticipated advancement in armor, when we see it.. I am all for it

[Diver43]

Here’s an update -

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/new-arm ... Dera%20gun.

I don’t know where folks are getting the extreme weight at. It’s not a heavy rifle.
The NGSW - replacing the M249 - has some heft. But, so does the M249

The 6.8 round was tested - a lot.

Of the many modernization efforts the Army is running after, this one had the best working group and decision makers.

As we look at conducting Large Scale Combat Operations, we have to take a look at lessons learned, what’s currently going on, and what we think may happen. It’s not a wicked problem, but it is a problem of risk acceptance and risk avoidance.
Having a heavier rifle, that improves lethality and accuracy, falls into the risk acceptance bucket. We do not anticipate Joe carrying this rifle through the jungles of south east Asia for weeks at a time. we do anticipate island hoping in the indo-pacom theater. But, still not bushwhacking or even having to hump everything from Normandy to Paris…

Ukraine is killing Russian ADA assets with paper and balsa wood drones laden with TNT. No one, in the history of Arial warfare anticipated anything like that happening.

So, if having a rifle that is two pounds heavier and shoots a bigger bullet helps defeat the unanticipated advancement in armor, when we see it.. I am all for it

Very Good Info. Is the new 6.8 round similar to the 6.8 SPC?

[Centermass]

the Army round is also called the .277 Fury. It is 6.8 x51

If I remember, the 6.8spc is 6.8 x 43

The difference is about 500Fps, in favor of the furry. So, essentially, we figured out a way to throw a 6.8mm round at the same velocity of the 5.56…