Am I wrong, or is local FFL an idiot?

[GrapeApe]

My dad has decided he wants a Dagger and Holosun after seeing and now shooting mine. My father is TERRIFIED of putting his CC number on the web, so normally when he wants something ordered, he pays me cash and I order it on my CC.
Called local FFL to let him know what was inbound and that my father would be picking it up and filling out the 4473. He "bowed up" and told me that that was an illegal straw purchase.
I explained that the actual person getting the pistol would be the one filling out the 4473 and that it was NOT a straw purchase.
He flat out told me, that if the paperwork that came to him with it had MY name on it, I would have to be the one that filled out the 4473 or it was a straw purchase.

I went and read some of the "Don't lie for the other guy" ATF stuff, and ALL it basically says is, "Don't fill out the 4473 for a firearm for someone who otherwise wouldn't be able to purchase a firearm"

So, does the fact that my credit card paid for it make it a straw purchase if my dad, who CAN pass the background check, picks it up and fills out the 4473??
FYI, he told me as long as it came in my dad's name, it wouldn't be a problem. So I changed the name and "shipping address" to my dad's and left the billing name and address as it was and it's still going to the same ffl.

What say you? Straw purchase, or idiot FFL?

Edited to add: I've always "known" that the person filing out the 4473 is the "owner" of the gun regardless of who paid for it. (Think raffle, or some other way to "win" a free gun) Am I wrong?

[CPJ 2.0]

I believe you are correct, but I don’t blame the FFL for his stance. Even if it was out of his ignorance.
If I was an FFL , I wouldn’t do it. EIEIO doesn’t play fair. It ain’t worth the risk, or perceived risk to get alphabet soup all up in your bidness.

[PFD45]

Agree with CPJ.
It PROBABLY wouldn't have been a problem but losing that transfer fee would have been cheap CYA.

[Justsomedude]

I saw a situation at my last employer when they just happened to be having a compliance check and an atf agent was there that day. A husband and wife came in, husband was looking at guns, found one and did the 4473 and passed. Wife pulls out her credit card and paid for it and they left. As SOON as they walked out the door, the atf agent lit them up for doing a straw purchase. It amazed me that he just le it happen instead of stopping it first. They got wrote up for it.

[GrapeApe]

I saw a situation at my last employer when they just happened to be having a compliance check and an atf agent was there that day. A husband and wife came in, husband was looking at guns, found one and did the 4473 and passed. Wife pulls out her credit card and paid for it and they left. As SOON as they walked out the door, the atf agent lit them up for doing a straw purchase. It amazed me that he just le it happen instead of stopping it first. They got wrote up for it.

WOW

[GrapeApe]

It boggles my mind...
It came onto their books as a transfer from PSA. It would be leaving their books to my dad, with the 4473 to prove it. AND HE WOULD BE KEEPING THE GUN
HOW, in God's name, can they claim that as a "straw purchase"?
Now the FFl will be happy because "the purchaser" from PSA is my dad, BUT I STILL PAID FOR IT ON MY CC
Since, no matter what name orders it, it's going on their book as a FFl to FFL transfer, why does it matter whose name orders it? Neither mine, nor my dad's name will appear anywhere in their records until we pick it up and fill out the 4473

[GrapeApe]

I guess by the logic I'm seeing here, ANY gun won through a raffle etc, and picked up from an FFL is a "straw purchase"

[GrapeApe]

FYI, here's ATF's own definition of a straw purchase

What is a straw purchase firearm?
A straw purchase is an illegal firearm purchase where the actual buyer of the gun, being unable to pass the required federal background check or desiring to not have his or her name associated with the transaction, uses a proxy buyer who can pass the required background check to purchase the firearm for him/her.

I won't be the one being background checked, and, until I inherit it at some point in the future, won't own the gun or have access to it.
Both of us can, and have recently, passed the ATFEIEIO's background checks.
Sorry guys, I'm still scratching my head on this one.

[Chiro1989]

Pretty much. Any raffle falls under the scenario your fIL described

[Justsomedude]

The issue isn't that the guy knows that would be a straw purchase because as someone said above, that's the exact way a raffle gun is transferred. The problem is that you can take 3 atf agents and ask them a legality question and get 3 different interpretations. Nobody is willing to risk it because of Bidens zero tolerance stance and the fact that they are even using clerical errors to pull licenses. I won't even touch transfers anymore because of it. They ffl is just playing it safe.

[GrapeApe]

Okay, THAT makes sense, especially coming from a FFL holder.
THANK YOU!!

[N454casull]

The issue isn't that the guy knows that would be a straw purchase because as someone said above, that's the exact way a raffle gun is transferred. The problem is that you can take 3 atf agents and ask them a legality question and get 3 different interpretations. Nobody is willing to risk it because of Bidens zero tolerance stance and the fact that they are even using clerical errors to pull licenses. I won't even touch transfers anymore because of it. They ffl is just playing it safe.

This is exactly it. 1 guy says nothing see’s it as a clean transfer. 1 guy sees it as mildly problematic and gives you the lecture and that’s it. Last guys goes all in and it’s a huge headache and maybe your license. Not worth the risk.

[N454casull]

I actually talked to a guy who was in the industry and now is a liaison for the ATF. He pointed out the very first yes/no question. Are you the actual buyer of the firearm? If someone else is paying for it you are not the actual buyer. That actually made sense to me lol.

[Gila]

The way we do it for raffles here is make a deal on the price with a local gun store, then give the winner of the raffle the money to make the purchase and tell them where the deal is.

[Chiro1989]

Same here, there is a gun listed on the ticket, but the value is included on the certificate we send them to the store with and the dollar amount can be used for whatever you want in the store. My FFL has been audited by the BATF in recent years, they were in the wringer for a banquet gun the could not account for, paper work got lost, they quit transferring guns at banquet’s and everyone has to come into the shop now