Wagner Group vs. Russia

[Chiro1989]

Anyone smarter than me have any concerns about this going sideways?

[Jerm]

I am almost wondering if there is some secret squirrel stuff going on that created this mess for them.

[breamfisher]

Remember when Wagner was complaining about a lack of ammo and missiles?

They seem to have enough, now.

[CPJ 2.0]

Never heard of it till just now. (Ignoring news is amazing)
Had a Google, saw I couldn’t fix it or that it doesn’t concern me….now to finish this coffee.

[Chiro1989]

Wagner group accessing/capturing nuclear arms may be concerning.

[Chiro1989]

Remember when Wagner was complaining about a lack of ammo and missiles?

They seem to have enough, now.

That southern town they rolled through had a military installation.

[Chiro1989]

I am almost wondering if there is some secret squirrel stuff going on that created this mess for them.

Takes our attention off the Bidens.

[Jerm]

Lol.

[CPJ 2.0]

Wagner group accessing/capturing nuclear arms may be concerning.

If I could control it, yes, it certainly would.
Yet I’ve no more control over Ruskie nukes than I do an alien spacecraft landing in my back yard and butt probing me, or a 747 dropping a chunk of frozen blue poop through my roof and killing me while I’m sitting in my skivies drinking coffee.
So, it is of zero concern.
Now.
If they want to parachute into my town?

[breamfisher]

That was on this morning.

They were terrible insurgents.

[Varmintmist]

From what I read, a russian helo was attacking a civilian convoy, Wagner shot it down, Russians had a meeting to destroy Wagner, Russians shelled and rocketed a large part of Wagner REMF's, Wagner crossed into Russia and took a town. There is no love lost between Russians and Wagner as it is. They wernt sending ammo and Wagner was not renewing the contract.

Could be a good first step and Putin gets replaced with a non Soviet, could end with the NewSSR nuking Wagner, its not like the GRU ever gave a crap about the proles and Putin is GRU. Wagner could win and that would still be ungood.

At least Wagner understands what we can do if we want to. Maybe that plays in to it.

[Chiro1989]

I asked some friends in "the know" and seems legit on face value, my friends were hoping the Ukranians would take advantage of the situation and launch a counteroffensive, figures if they push to the ethnic-Russian Donbas region and stop, they would be in a good position.

[Jerm]

https://news.yahoo.com/putins-plane-rep ... 00722.html

[Justsomedude]

People still believe Putin is the bad guy?

[bullsi1911]

People still believe Putin is the bad guy?

He is Abad guy.

But not the only bad guy in this.

My fear- we end up paying and arming all 3 sides in this charley foxtrot

[Justsomedude]

I dont know. I'm extremely jaded by both the media and .gov
When they tell me that "Putin bad, Zelenski Good," I typically believe the exact opposite. There's something unnerving about people that still believe the media. At least alot of people on the right are starting to see that while the dems and those that made their Facebook profile the Ukraine flag still have alot of faith in what they're told.

[Varmintmist]

People still believe Putin is the bad guy?

For 20+ years he told everyone that his intent was to remake the Russian empire. He invaded Georgia during Bush and we did nothing, he invaded Crimea during Obama and we did nothing. ("Crimea votes 98%.... bang... 100, 100% for Russian annexation") As another bonus, we promised UKR that we would defend them if they gave the nukes back to Russia. So we lied again, twice, and did little to keep out word the third time.

When he overruns Moldovia or Poland will that make it clear? Do you think Sweden pulled its antiship missiles out of museums and made them serviceable and active because of the Ukrainian Navy? The Finns joined NATO because they like the flag? Or maybe they have seen this before.

This has been in the works since he got "elected" Its not Nazi's or he would have attacked Illinois. Its not bio plants. Russian propaganda told us that when the Russians freed the bioweaps plants that the NATO masters were so diabolicaly evil that they didnt take notes on their experiments...... This is all about resources. Adding UKR to Russia gives Putin control over 1/3 of the worlds grain. Grain can be used to control third world countries, again. About 90% of all sunflower oil, large deposits of rare earth minerals, and sweeter crude oil, access to better ports and control over the pipelines to the EU, and the largest nuke plant in EU that produces power for a few countries. He didnt shell that one.

Is UKR sunshine and buttercups? Nope. In part thats out fault for jerking them around and dealing in their corruption, Biden eg.

I have no faith in the media, and a hell of a lot less in you tube posters and chem trail facebookers. I have a lot of faith in the fact the Putin is GRU, has always been GRU and was very pissed off when the wall came down and that he has told anyone who would listen that this is what he was going to do and has followed through. Also in some relatives that learned Russian while serving this country.

[bullsi1911]

I dont know. I'm extremely jaded by both the media and .gov
When they tell me that "Putin bad, Zelenski Good," I typically believe the exact opposite. There's something unnerving about people that still believe the media. At least alot of people on the right are starting to see that while the dems and those that made their Facebook profile the Ukraine flag still have alot of faith in what they're told.

There is a good chance that every side in this conflict are “bad guys”

And that includes us

[Justsomedude]

I posted a lengthy explanation to further explain my thoughts and it just didn't show up. Kinda sucks, buy the jist of it is that I'm only 40 and havent kept up on the back and forth with Rissia, Putin, etc... but solely base my opinion on what the media feeds us. I'm to the point of believing that the opposite of whatever they feed the masses is probably the truth. As for Ukraine, I'm fairly certain that the US wouldn't be too happy if Mexico allowed our enemies to set up installations and bio weapon labs. Again, we probably don't know the half of the truth or reason that Putin did what he did.

[Varmintmist]

There are bio labs all over the world, 46 I believe. The reason for them is that is something goes sideways you need the ability to research the whatever there, and fast. Thats where they are working on the Marburg virus that just broke out in Africa, in Africa. As I stated when the Russian propaganda machine wrote up the Russians taking the bio "weapons" lab, they found nothing so their answer was that NATO was so evil and insidious that they didnt take notes on their experiments... Yep, that makes sense... and it is cold war soviet page 1 actions. There were no bioweaps labs.

To understand Putin you need to think cold war. He TOLD everyone that he was going to remake the Russian empire. He is GRU and loved the life. He took Georgia and Crimea, how do people forget that? The US population has a nasty problem in that a lot of people refuse history that didnt happen befoe they became politically aware. Did UKR set up insatallations and ask for NATO help, YES, AFTER Russia took a large part of UKR, called Crimea getting a 100% vote to be annexed while surrounded by Spetznaz, and after Russia took another area called Georgia, AND after the US told them we would help after they gave the Russian ICBMs back. That was Clinton BTW.

Dont believe the media. You want to believe Putin, so believe Putin, all of it. Not just the parts that happened in todays soundbites or what has happened this week or year, all of it. He told you what he was going to do and is doing it. It is for resources that he wants control over to give Russian more influence in the world again, period.

[Justsomedude]

I have no idea about anything else that you wrote above, but I do know that I watched a congressional hearing that admitted to the bio labs in Ukraine. That much I do know.

[Waipapa13]

I was going to wade into this, but Varmintmist hit every point I was going to make.
He's pointed you in the right direction information wise and given you the context.
It's a think horses not zebras kind of thing

Some of the changes happening in Europe around NATO membership are mind blowing.

[Orchidman]

443.jpg (153.29 KiB) Viewed 5627 times

[Japhy]

A colossal ruse!

[Centermass]

In two former jobs, I became a Russian specialist. Even helped write the AWG publication on Russian New Generation Warfare.

So, this is what I will say - it’s very hard to discern through the media what is the truth and what is not. The Information operations being conducted are across the spectrum. We don’t even know if this was Political Theater for some other purpose or if this was a legit attempt to usurp the Ministry of Defense (the stated goal).
Unless the CIA or Mosaad come forward and claim responsibility for pushing Wagner in that direction, we may never know the truth.

As far as Putin being the bad guy… is he really? The United States still has not learned how to play chess or learned how to appreciate foreign policy through the eyes of others. I’m not saying he has done the right things, but I am saying I understand them completely.
After the collapse of the Soviet Union, europe treated Russia like crap. Clinton was bold enough to invite Russia to the G7 summit, but everyone else turned their backs. Odd, cause europe didn’t do this to Germany after back to back world wars. Russia had also lost its industrial base and buffer zone protecting them from Western Europe.
Putin inherited corruption, Soviet grown Islamic terrorist, and a flailing economy. So, he did what any leader in his position would do - consolidated power to protect the institution of mother Russia. Don’t lie to yourselves, we’ve done the exact things in times of crisis.
Russia’s move on Georgia was an effort to sized the Transcaucasia region for access to the Black Sea and other strategic importance. It was a panic action after Georgia requested NATO membership.
The move on Crimea in 2014 was another effort for strategic gain, in a region that identified as Russian. In the Russian mind, Crimea believes it is Russian so it must come back to Russia.
If you understand the full story of the Syrian conflict, then you know we made that situation worse. And, truth be told, Putin made the right call. Until 2014, Assad was praised as a progressive ME leader.
The fight for Ukraine is deeper than what people think. Russia has on again off again ruled parts of Ukraine. They firmly believe Donbas is theirs. But, the real rub with Ukraine is the rise of a Western European empire at the front door of mother Russia.
Every Western European empire had marched on Moscow, or had plans to. The formation of the eastern bloc was more about having a buffer between Moscow and Western Europe than anything else. In the eyes of Russia, NATO/EU is another Western European empire that is marching its way towards Moscow. With mostly an economic dominance. The more EU influence on European market control cuts off the Russian market share. If you have a fledging economy, and you’re slowly watching your market share and available markets disappear, doesn’t that look a little threatening. Again, don’t lie to yourselves. We’ve accused Japan and China of economic dirtiness ourselves. Hell, in the wake of WWI, we reduced the size of the Japanese fleet so we could have greater access to the South east Asia area.
In the meanwhile with these Little incursions around the world, Russia is being told one thing by western leaders, and watching them do something else. For instance, Bush told Putin we would not move Missiles into Poland… then moved Missiles into Poland.
Just like the US escalated the Cold War with the Keenan and crew philosophy of containment, NATO/EU began the exact same thing at the turn of the century. And, I’m the end we left Russia with no room to move or breath. So, when you look around and find yourself in a corner with no friends around, you fight for survival. You know you don’t have to win. You just know that you can’t lose.
That is where Russia is at. Putin knows he doesn’t have to win. He knows that he is not going to take Ukraine. But, he knows he can’t lose. So what does that look like to him? Well, it looks like Russia owning Donbas and Crimea, because Russia believes those are Russian. It also looks like market shares in Europe. It also is bleeding NATO of money and military equipment/munitions until they beg Russia to come to the table. And, at that point Russia will know NATO doesn’t have the power to march against Moscow.

The west is looking for quick wins in a game of checkers. Putin is looking for long term safety in a game of chess.