Guns & Outdoors Forum

I have questions!

Thinking about using it on my 45-60 cases made out of 45-70 brass. Some folks have reported bullets getting pushed back into the case during recoil when using smokeless loads.

1- Has anyone experienced this with similar cartridges like the 45-70 and such?
2- If you’ve used it on your ammo, can you adjust for a shorter case like 45-60 in a 45-70 die?
3- The company claims better accuracy, anyone can back that one with actual experience, or it is blowing smoke marketing jazz?

Thanks for your input.

My personal experience with .45 caliber and a Lee factory crip die would be with my little .458. prior to have Lee make me a set of dies I used a combination of dies and one was a modified .45-70 factory crimp die. The factory crimp die is set to work with a very limited range in case length. If the 45-60 brass is shorter than the .45-70 brass you will need to shorten the bottom of the collet for the crimp die the same amount.

I find that in the little .458 with a heavy charge of IMR 4227 I need at least a mild crimp for consistent performance and with W296 I need a heavy crimp to not have 80-100fps extreme spreads in velocity. I can not comment on bullet setback as I have plenty of space between the front of the bullet and magazine box.

With my .350l I played around with some crimp options including shortening a crimp die to crimp completely behind the case mouth to avoid potential head space issues. This was when I trying to sort out issues with my Ruger.

I use Lee factory crimp dies in a fair number of cartridges.

1-I use the Lee Factory Crimp on the 450 Bushmaster and 7.62x39. Maybe a couple of others, but I know I have it for those
2-not a clue
3- never loaded those cartridges without the FCD. But I can tell you that my loads for those are MOA or better.

I've used them - a little. I'm just wracking my brain right now trying to remember for what cartridge. Possibly .303 British with cast bullets. In any event, it was to deal with some case mouth bulge that was hampering easy chambering. It did the job.

As I recall, the FCD does its thing on contact with the case mouth. I don't think you'd have any problem with your .45-60 in .45-70 approach.

A crimp definitely CAN improve consistency of some ammo by making for consistent grip on the bullet and release of it. The main thing is you want to make use of whatever cannelure or crimp groove the bullet provides so as to avoid crushing the normal profile.

As I say, I haven't used the FCD much, but a lot of the casting intelligentsia swear by it.

I doubt it’s magic, but, it will…crimp a bullet.

Mr slug, I believe you're mistaken. The shell holder is what moves the collet according to LEE's information.
At least in the rifle rounds I'm familiar with

The shell holder contacts the bottom of the collet and pushes it up into the die body. The die body has a taper at the top of where the collet is and that is what closes the collet on the case. When I modified a .45-70 FCD to work with my little .458 I had to shorten the body and collet to get the correct length. I ended up getting it close enough to work until I had proper dies made, but it wasnt perfect.

It is possible to adjust the FCD so tight that it will crimp the case into the bullet even without a cannelure to crimp into.

I finally relented and bought one for my 454casull and it worked like everyone said it would. I have a 7-1/2" super Redhawk and with full power hand loads, I could rarely fire a whole cylinder without a bullet pulling and locking it up, no matter how ridiculously deep I crimped the bullets. The Internet advised that the fcd was the only solution and it worked.

This is a quick comparison between a Hornady taper crimp, Lee FCD, and shortened Lee FCD. The shortened die is set to a very heavy crimp as an exaggeration of a heavy crimp. The pictures are not the best, but they should show enough. The dummy rounds do fit in my CVA break action. I have not tried them in my Ruger American, but I dont see why they wouldnt chamber just fine.

Factory and shortened Lee FCD dies.
L-R Hornady TC, Lee FCD, and heavy shortened Lee FCD

I have had no issues with the .45-60!! I believe we have the same rifle and dies! If you have the RCBS Legacy dies, the seater die will give an adequate crimp, just follow the instructions!

As for Lees claims on accuracy, I’ve not compared apples to apples.

But I’ve also read the Lee reloading manual. There’s a lot of claims and back patting going on within the text.

I’ve had no issues with my Lee FCDs as long as I do t get stupid.

I use one with my cast .45 ACP loads. Helps make sure the case mouth is properly resized for chambering, and it works well. I can't speak to accuracy or anything else. Like CPJ said, if you read Lee's manual it's the best thing since sliced bread, and just as amazing as Lee's other products. They are true marvels of engineering. Even their crappy products.

Big Al1 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 5:57 pm I have had no issues with the .45-60!! I believe we have the same rifle and dies! If you have the RCBS Legacy dies, the seater die will give an adequate crimp, just follow the instructions!

I haven’t had any issues so far but it’s not like I’ve fired a ton of rounds through it. And you are correct, the RCBS dies do put in a relatively substantial roll crimp on the bullet regardless of cannelure or not. So far I’ve shot mostly single or doubles and only one full mag tube since I haven’t had the chance to load a lot lately and I was mostly testing function and cycling and I only have 15 rounds left of my initial test batch. But I never checked to see if the bullets had sunk into the case. Needless to say the rounds go through the Centennial like sh1t through a goose. The amount of shooting is going to change as I fine tune the load you gave me (THANKS!!!) looking for accuracy and maybe just a HAIR more speed? I’ll be getting an RCBS Chargemaster as soon as they put it on sale and I plan to be the only guy running a 45-60 at full speed around these parts . I LOVE that gun!!!

So from the responses it seems like the Lee Factory Crimp is not a bad idea, or at least it would not hurt anything, but the 45-70 die will require some modification to work correctly with the shorter 45-60 case. Now by the pictures I saw here it seems it does not need precision machining to get there. They are cheap enough that I can experiment using tools I already have so there is that.

Thanks for all the input guys! This group never lets me down

It was a quick and dirty modification for an experiment. Its amazing what a belt sander can do..... The picture makes it look rougher than it really is. Some day I will get a lathe.

Zee wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 7:32 pm I’ve had no issues with my Lee FCDs as long as I do t get stupid.

Define “stupid”?

mitdr774 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:01 pm It was a quick and dirty modification for an experiment. Its amazing what a belt sander can do..... The picture makes it look rougher than it really is. Some day I will get a lathe.

Looks don’t mean much in this endeavor

I have a mini table saw with a thin diamond blade the should make relatively short work of this and give me enough precision and be neat enough for what I need.

It's fairly even across the face of it, but fairly obvious that it wasn't done with a precision tool. It works, but it's not pretty. Lee obviously did a better job with their factory machining.

mitdr774 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:40 pm It's fairly even across the face of it, but fairly obvious that it wasn't done with a precision tool. It works, but it's not pretty. Lee obviously did a better job with their factory machining.

IMG_20240122_163538363.jpg

Did you shorten both the body and collet or just the collet?

On the .350l crimp I only shortened the collet. On the one I originally made for my little .458 I had to shorten the body and collet. That one is much cruder, but still worked just fine. I had Lee make me one when they made my die set. Now my die set for the .458 looks more professional. I Hornady seating die would be a nice addition down the road.