Guns & Outdoors Forum

Ok so I want to venture into the unknown.

The rifle is a Uberti 1876 Centennial. I’ll be using brand new 45-70 brass cut down to 1.9” (45-60 size) and size using the proper RCBS dies.

I’d like to develop a load using Berry plated 45-70 (.458) 350gr bullets They have no lube grooves and they do have a crimp cannelure that would work for the 45-60 max OAL. Preferred powder would be 4198 since I already have a supply and works well with the 300gr lead bullets I’m using now.

Thoughts on how to get going? Thanks want to be conservative but this is a modern steel gun and I believe Uberti has them tested to 28,000. The bullets are good for 1900fps but I don’t see the point of pushing them more that 1,400fps MAYBE 1,500.

QuickLoad doesn't include Berry Bullets, HOWEVER, they do include the now defunct Rainier plated bullets.
With a 350gr Rainier and IMR4198, it shows 25.0gr giving you ~1250fps velocity from a 22" barrel and 75% case fill. It also says that the pressure should be ~13246psi

It shows 30.0gr giving you ~1500fps at 84% case fill and a pressure of ~21000psi
33.3gr shows ~1650fps, 100% case fill and a pressure of ~28000psi which QL says is max pressure for the round

28.0gr is projected to hit your requested 1400fps with 84% case fill and ~17500psi pressure.

All data computer generated, so start low and work up and I'd start getting concerned if you're getting much over 1500fps with that bullet/powder combo.

Not the powder you asked about but if you have trailBoss look no further. My play all day load in my marlin Cowboy 45-70 is 14gr behind a 385gr cast RN
Accurate and pleasant to shoot. Cut that back a bit for the shorter 45-60 case and your in the chips as they say in Vegas

And Grapeape for the win!!

Elk Creek wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 3:45 pm And Grapeape for the win!!

Yep!!!

GrapeApe wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 2:02 pm QuickLoad doesn't include Berry Bullets, HOWEVER, they do include the now defunct Rainier plated bullets.
With a 350gr Rainier and IMR4198, it shows 25.0gr giving you ~1250fps velocity from a 22" barrel and 75% case fill. It also says that the pressure should be ~13246psi

It shows 30.0gr giving you ~1500fps at 84% case fill and a pressure of ~21000psi
33.3gr shows ~1650fps, 100% case fill and a pressure of ~28000psi which QL says is max pressure for the round

28.0gr is projected to hit your requested 1400fps with 84% case fill and ~17500psi pressure.

All data computer generated, so start low and work up and I'd start getting concerned if you're getting much over 1500fps with that bullet/powder combo.

You are da’man!!!!

sakodude wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 2:32 pm Not the powder you asked about but if you have trailBoss look no further. My play all day load in my marlin Cowboy 45-70 is 14gr behind a 385gr cast RN
Accurate and pleasant to shoot. Cut that back a bit for the shorter 45-60 case and your in the chips as they say in Vegas

I would use Trailboss for my plinking loads if I could find a can anywhere!!!

But this particular load I’m looking to put together something that would be more suitable for hunting decent sized critters with this gun and something that no one else offers.

In the old days the ‘76 in 45-60 was considered strong bear medicine and was a favorite of the Texas rangers. I’m trying to give it testicles again

Might be a stupid question but will plated or jacketed bullets properly engrave the rifling to stabilize at that low velocity ? Is the rifling cut deep enough?

ericb622 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 7:19 pm Might be a stupid question but will plated or jacketed bullets properly engrave the rifling to stabilize at that low velocity ? Is the rifling cut deep enough?

Apparently these bullets shoot like lead (meant for 45-70) and the Uberti guns have old school rifling. The only thing missing should be any leading.

But we’ll be finding out hopefully this weekend.

Trail Boss is currently not in production apparently. Based on what I have been able to find it has not been on the production schedule for a few years. Its a bummer as I have a lot of uses for it.

Most of the plated and the powder coated will behave a lot like cast lead, just without as much leading potential. I am sure you will have a lot of fun with them.

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 6:21 pm

sakodude wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 2:32 pm Not the powder you asked about but if you have trailBoss look no further. My play all day load in my marlin Cowboy 45-70 is 14gr behind a 385gr cast RN
Accurate and pleasant to shoot. Cut that back a bit for the shorter 45-60 case and your in the chips as they say in Vegas

I would use Trailboss for my plinking loads if I could find a can anywhere!!!

But this particular load I’m looking to put together something that would be more suitable for hunting decent sized critters with this gun and something that no one else offers.

In the old days the ‘76 in 45-60 was considered strong bear medicine and was a favorite of the Texas rangers. I’m trying to give it testicles again

If it still works I'll take my crony to the range next trip and see what velocity I'm getting. Does not feel slow and whacks 100 yard steel with authority.
I suspect critters would not walk away from it.

My daughter shot her first buck with a 350-ish grain lead bullet from a 45-70 loaded with trail boss, it was going 900-ish FPS.
In one side, out the other.

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:37 pm My daughter shot her first buck with a 350-ish grain lead bullet from a 45-70 loaded with trail boss, it was going 900-ish FPS.
In one side, out the other.

A 44wcf was a great hunting cartridge at one time…… deer ain’t armor plated!

mitdr774 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 8:29 pm Trail Boss is currently not in production apparently. Based on what I have been able to find it has not been on the production schedule for a few years. Its a bummer as I have a lot of uses for it.

Most of the plated and the powder coated will behave a lot like cast lead, just without as much leading potential. I am sure you will have a lot of fun with them.

Oh I intend to have a LOT of fun with these! Too bad about Trail Boss. Really popular powder

sakodude wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:33 pm

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 6:21 pm

sakodude wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 2:32 pm Not the powder you asked about but if you have trailBoss look no further. My play all day load in my marlin Cowboy 45-70 is 14gr behind a 385gr cast RN
Accurate and pleasant to shoot. Cut that back a bit for the shorter 45-60 case and your in the chips as they say in Vegas

I would use Trailboss for my plinking loads if I could find a can anywhere!!!

But this particular load I’m looking to put together something that would be more suitable for hunting decent sized critters with this gun and something that no one else offers.

In the old days the ‘76 in 45-60 was considered strong bear medicine and was a favorite of the Texas rangers. I’m trying to give it testicles again

If it still works I'll take my crony to the range next trip and see what velocity I'm getting. Does not feel slow and whacks 100 yard steel with authority.
I suspect critters would not walk away from it.

I’m sure they would not. I’m just looking to put a little more lead on this pencil.

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:37 pm My daughter shot her first buck with a 350-ish grain lead bullet from a 45-70 loaded with trail boss, it was going 900-ish FPS.
In one side, out the other.

I have no doubt it worked well through the lungs of a deer. I’m looking to get in one side and out the other through bone on elk.

Elk Creek wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:52 pm

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:37 pm My daughter shot her first buck with a 350-ish grain lead bullet from a 45-70 loaded with trail boss, it was going 900-ish FPS.
In one side, out the other.

A 44wcf was a great hunting cartridge at one time…… deer ain’t armor plated!

I know. I’ve shot enough deer to know they can be killed with just about anything. Looking for demo thing that’s not the “usual”

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:29 pm

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:37 pm My daughter shot her first buck with a 350-ish grain lead bullet from a 45-70 loaded with trail boss, it was going 900-ish FPS.
In one side, out the other.

I have no doubt it worked well through the lungs of a deer. I’m looking to get in one side and out the other through bone on elk.

The elk I shot with mu 40-65 didn't notice it was not a magnum

sakodude wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:38 pm

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:29 pm

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 9:37 pm My daughter shot her first buck with a 350-ish grain lead bullet from a 45-70 loaded with trail boss, it was going 900-ish FPS.
In one side, out the other.

I have no doubt it worked well through the lungs of a deer. I’m looking to get in one side and out the other through bone on elk.

The elk I shot with mu 40-65 didn't notice it was not a magnum

There you go! Elk creek, knows where I’m going with this.

I bet Wambli shoots an elk with a 45-60 for science…..

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:25 pm

Oh I intend to have a LOT of fun with these! Too bad about Trail Boss. Really popular powder

I think I have a box of plated 350gr to try in my little .458 as well. Not my intended deer bullet, but more for paper punching. I save the Speer 350gr for deer.

Elk Creek wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:11 pm I bet Wambli shoots an elk with a 45-60 for science…..

As soon as I get a tag. Perfect for woods hunting up close carried horseback in a scabbard.

mitdr774 wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 11:49 pm

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Fri Feb 02, 2024 10:25 pm

Oh I intend to have a LOT of fun with these! Too bad about Trail Boss. Really popular powder

I think I have a box of plated 350gr to try in my little .458 as well. Not my intended deer bullet, but more for paper punching. I save the Speer 350gr for deer.

Somewhere I have a bunch of those too. Don’t know that I can get the speed on this round high enough to open that bullet. I do have a handful of 300gr JHPs meant for 45-70 that I could play with.

My thought with the Speer 350gr is that even if it doesnt open, its still punching a hole with a .458" diameter projectile that has a fairly wide flat front to it. I am pushing them to 2100fps with some room to go a little faster. It has worked for me twice now. First was a bang flop and second had less than ideal shot placement (my fault) but it didnt go very far. I think I have some 300 JHP floating around as well.

Oh I’m sure they are working fine at 2,100. I’ll be lucky to get to 1,500 in a 1870s designed gun