The Guns & Outdoors forum is a place for shooting and outdoors enthusiasts to hold conversations, ask questions, share ideas and other valuable information.
I thought I would check in and post another gun from my collection of guns by Derby makers. This one is by William Ellis who traded from a workshop attached to his house at 34, St. Albans Road, Derby. Brown's 'British Gunmakers' has him trading from 1955 to 1976 which makes him the last of the Derby 'Gunmakers' to trade. He largely bought guns from the Birmingham Trade and finished them to customer's requirements which entitled him to put his own name on the gun. This was common practice in Britain and the name on the gun often only relates to the retailer with the actual 'Maker' lost to history. I did meet a Mr. Hodgkinson who once worked for Ellis and also his Daughter who was then a school mistress at a local school and now wish I had asked a lot more questions. Ellis' wife did carry on trading after his death but closed after an unfortunate incident where a customer came into the shop, bought a gun and some cartridges, and when she went into the house to complete the paperwork the customer shot himself.
William Ellis largely sorted his workshop from equipment bought from the closure of Charles Rosson's shop when he finished. This equipment was then purchased by Dereck Fearn of 'Catton Gunsmiths' who I knew quite well but he is another of the old breed who has passed on.
This gun is a side by side box-lock non-ejector 12 bore with 28 inch barrels and 2 1/2" chambers. It is a strongly made gun and would easily re-proof to take 2 3/4" cartridges following a slight lengthening of the chambers. It has survived in remarkably good condition and is a pleasure to use. It is the only example of his work that I have but is as good an example as I would want. This one would be described as 'Game Scene Engraved'.
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." - Samuel Clemens (aka Mark Twain)
Gives off a vibe of "good, utilitarian construction with engraving laid down by a solid hand". The guy wasn't selling to Holland or W.R.'s customers, but clearly knew what he was about all the same.
For the guns like this that came "out of the trade", how difficult is it to track them down to a particular maker based on features used, dimensions, etc...? I've been asked to put a make on various old European trade pistols for evidence purposes, and often the best I can do is nail down a nation.
Very cool bit of history!
WWJMBD?
Those who study history are destined to lose their minds watching those who don't repeat it.
Very difficult Bigslug. It seems that the records have gone astray for this Maker but no doubt he would have recorded from whom he purchased the barrelled action and who would have been the Outworker responsible for the engraving. I am having difficulty in dating this one. Proof marks only indicate 1925 to 1954 when the marks changed. There is a date code mark but it looks like the person stamping it managed to bounce the die leaving a blurred double impression. Sometimes there is a few clues such as the style of the gun being particular to a certain Maker and sometimes some subtle stamp of initials; some of which can be identified but many which were lost in time but would have been instantly recognisable to someone now long passed on. Quite a bit of Detective work needs to be applied sometimes. I have a Trade Catalogue by Holloway, who made guns to supply to Trade customers to then have their name applied. Holloway guns are easy as the serial number always starts with the letter 'H'. The final Dealer selling the gun would then apply an additional serial number in many cases which would be those recorded in his work book. I'll no doubt come up with some more from the Derby collection; plus others!
No problem. I England such guns do not command what they are really worth. It came up at Auction a couple of years ago. I put in a commission bid of £200 and was outbid by two others and it went for £240. The winner of the bids was someone I knew and he later was not too bothered about it so offered it to me. He had paid commission on the purchase so it stood him at about £280 and I gave him £300 to cover and as a goodwill gesture. In the same sale I had the winning bid on a double 16 bore box-lock non-ejector by the Midland Gun Company in similar condition for which I paid £125 and then found it also had its original canvas trunk case with it too. I was prepared to pay a little extra for the Ellis as I wanted it as I didn't have an example and his output wasn't very high. I recently picked up a Rosson of Derby double 12 bore box-lock ejector in excellent condition but with a plain unengraved action for which I paid just £100. Certainly a Buyer's market here.
