Factory 1911's for Bullseye/CMP (Paging Bigslug)

[shotgunshooter3]

I'm dabbling with the idea of venturing into bullseye style shooting, with the particular intent of pursuing placement in the President's 100. I'm well aware of the rabbit hole of handloading, etc that this could ultimately lead to, but naturally my first "poke" into that world is to see if there are OEM guns accurate enough to meet the demands of this game.

CMP Rules now allow for 9mm 1911's, so for just trying the game out my old STI Trojan 9mm will get the nod, but a lot of what I"m seeing online still recommends going with .45 ACP because of line breaks, and because certain bullseye disciplines require it.

So what OEM 1911's are out there that can play in this space with little to no gunsmith involvement? Particularly the classics such as the Colt Gold Cup and Springfield Range Officer (which still pops up all over the place in used condition)?

Bigslug? This seems right up your alley.

[CPJ 2.0]

IMG_2751.jpeg (237.58 KiB) Viewed 496 times

[Wambli Ska]

Bullseye is a great discipline and I'm sorry I have not done it for a long time. It will show you ANY chinks in your armor in a big hurry and if you can successfully manage it your fundamentals are covered. Actually you just inspired me to get my old accurized Rem-Rand out and go do some shooting with it. It has been "retired" for too long.

So what's your budget? I'd go hunt down a Dan Wesson Pointman (About $2k) comes from the factory with a match barrel and a hand fitted frame/slide.

[Bigslug]

Here ya go: https://www.springfield-armory.com/1911 ... compliant/

When my Dad's joint issues made it clear that his wrists weren't going to be up to a constant diet of .45, we set him up with one of these. Springfield did a NICE job fitting that particular one together. They make the same gun in .45 if that's the way you're leaning.

I've merely dabbled in the Bullseye game, and it is indeed humbling. The gun you use and the ammo you put in it are typically a LONG way from being the weak link in the accuracy chain; once you're at the point where you can legitimately see a difference between $1000-$1500 rigs and the more custom rides, you'll be deep enough into the game to justify it.

CAVEAT: If you are intending to play the Bullseye game with a red dot (I understand it's probably allowed now), look at the Springfield TRP line. The TRP and the (discontinued) Trophy Match used to be pretty much the same gun - a higher level of hand fitting above the Loaded line - with the main difference between them being night sights vs. adjustable targets. You can now get the TRP with the AOS optic cut and the Operator light rail which would give you a little more weight up front with the option of attaching more.

[shotgunshooter3]

You have actually just made this REALLY easy for me. I have a SA TRP in .45 tucked away... a quick perusing online shows some Novak cut adjustable sight options (no dots for CMP pistol, yet)... Looks like I can be off to the races with $150 investment in a new sight!

USPSA I think is still my preferred long term game, but I'm going to see when the next local club bullseye match is and at least try out the 22/45.

[Japhy]

My range buds an I shoot an informal indoor bullseye round about once a month. This is not a sanctioned event so some shoot 9mm not 45. I use a Springfield range officer with a different bushing and a trigger tweek to about 4lbs iron sights but have some clip-on 1 diopter readers that puts everything in focus.
The springfield 1911 will hold under 2in at 25 yds. Off of a rest and factory range ammo. I can do about that hand held with the ruger mkii competition with a red dot and Voquartsen trigger kit and CCI standard ammo.

many of today’s pistols are accurate enough with good quality ammo. I have a supply of S&B. I learned quickly the limiting factor is not the gun. Its not that there arent some x rings it is holding 5 shots tight and on target that is frustrating

[Wambli Ska]

My first shooting mentor taught me how to shoot bullseye with a S&W Model 14. That was a crazy humbling experience. With the loooooong lock time of a revolver shooting SA follow up screwups were score killers.

[Bigslug]

You have actually just made this REALLY easy for me. I have a SA TRP in .45 tucked away... a quick perusing online shows some Novak cut adjustable sight options (no dots for CMP pistol, yet)... Looks like I can be off to the races with $150 investment in a new sight!

Arguably, maybe not even that.

There really isn't significant difference between what the.45 ACP does between the 25 and 50 yard lines. At least, most mortals are bringing way more human error to the party than 1-2 inches of vertical spread. Odds are, you'll lock in for your ammo and leave it alone afterwards. Most of what you'll be doing with adjustable sights is either compensating for the usual "the operator sucks" issues, dialing in for your preference between a center hold (because you're programmed for combat sighting) or a 6:00 hold (because it gives you better contrast to hold your black sights against white paper), or fiddle-farting to correct for "softball" handloads.

That all can be achieved more cheaply by checking your elevation against the regulation targets and getting the corrections off the sight math calculator on Dawson Precision's website. A new front sight may be all you need.

[shotgunshooter3]

You have actually just made this REALLY easy for me. I have a SA TRP in .45 tucked away... a quick perusing online shows some Novak cut adjustable sight options (no dots for CMP pistol, yet)... Looks like I can be off to the races with $150 investment in a new sight!

Arguably, maybe not even that.

There really isn't significant difference between what the.45 ACP does between the 25 and 50 yard lines. At least, most mortals are bringing way more human error to the party than 1-2 inches of vertical spread. Odds are, you'll lock in for your ammo and leave it alone afterwards. Most of what you'll be doing with adjustable sights is either compensating for the usual "the operator sucks" issues, dialing in for your preference between a center hold (because you're programmed for combat sighting) or a 6:00 hold (because it gives you better contrast to hold your black sights against white paper), or fiddle-farting to correct for "softball" handloads.

That all can be achieved more cheaply by checking your elevation against the regulation targets and getting the corrections off the sight math calculator on Dawson Precision's website. A new front sight may be all you need.

Good to know, and good point. For now if I actually dip a toe in this world, the .22 and 9mm are getting the nod at first, but it is very good to know that I am likely already well equipped for the game as-is.

[Bigslug]

It's worth digging into the current rules for the particular club you plan to play in.

The time of my dabbling (2010-2015-ish) was RIGHT before the NRA rule change to allow a much wider selection of service handguns. Prior to that (and what I had Colt reconstitute my Series 80 Gold Cup for) you had to rock something that externally looked pretty much like a GI 1911 or 92FS with adjustable sights being the big departure allowable. Thumbrest grips, mag funnels, ambi safeties were a no-go. That pretty much bit participation in the sport in the ass because outside of dedicated builders for the game like Les Baer, NOBODY was building anything like that at the time.

No idea what they're holding you to these days. Odds are in local club matches, nobody cares. Higher up in the stratosphere, gamers are gonna game.

[shotgunshooter3]

It's worth digging into the current rules for the particular club you plan to play in.

The time of my dabbling (2010-2015-ish) was RIGHT before the NRA rule change to allow a much wider selection of service handguns. Prior to that (and what I had Colt reconstitute my Series 80 Gold Cup for) you had to rock something that externally looked pretty much like a GI 1911 or 92FS with adjustable sights being the big departure allowable. Thumbrest grips, mag funnels, ambi safeties were a no-go. That pretty much bit participation in the sport in the ass because outside of dedicated builders for the game like Les Baer, NOBODY was building anything like that at the time.

No idea what they're holding you to these days. Odds are in local club matches, nobody cares. Higher up in the stratosphere, gamers are gonna game.

For Service Pistol, it's pretty accomodating these days. Very smart on the part of the CMP IMO. Basically trigger needs to be above 4# (4.5# ?), max barrel length 5.4", iron sights, no palm swells, thumb shelves, etc etc... Basically most off the shelf pistols are legal, if not competitive.

[Wambli Ska]

Damn so the DW won’t make it since I think the the factory trigger is 3.5.

[shotgunshooter3]

Damn so the DW won’t make it since I think the the factory trigger is 3.5.

Out of the box no, but that is easily adjusted.

[Varmintmist]

https://thecmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... -Rules.pdf

Presidents match is rule 8.3.1 Service pistol 5.1.1 course of fire pres 6.2.1 MN course 6.2.2

You are going to start on an EIC path and be embarrassed there long before you get to be embarrassed in the Presidents.

For the 45, as per about 5 distinguished pistol shooters who made me look like a newb back when I was shooting a lot, 158gr lead wadcutters, find a load that works and shoot it a lot. Not really different than service rifle for reloading. Its more person than load.

The gunsmith isnt going to get involved unless you are shooting match pistol, and then you arent shooting the presidents.

[Jay]

Bullseye pistol is a fantastic way to fine tune fundamentals. The skills gained in bullseye shooting translate well into other disciplines of shooting.

I can’t offer anything for service pistol or presidents type stuff. Not my game. I never shot sanctioned events. Only local matches that were match pistol, slow fire, 25 yard, B16 targets. Only difference being, we were allowed single shot pistols. I have a lot of money into TC Encore and Contender actions and custom barrels. For a game I don’t play any more.

Only thing I can offer is, wadcutters and SWC are your friend for cutting lines. Shoot A LOT! That’s the only way to build solid fundamentals. Thousands of rounds… And then thousands more.

If you’re going to go 1911, buy dummy rounds. When you go practice, have someone load your mags for you and put dummy rounds in randomly. You’ll see your mistakes.

[Jay]

Also, I’m not a fan of the 6 o’clock hold. Maybe because my eyes allowed me to see well enough. I preferred narrow front sight blades and very little daylight between the front sight and sides of the rear sight. I always wanted to have my round hit right at the tip of my front sight. Trying to place each round right where I want. I loaded and tested my ammo and sighted them on the bench. Then practiced to shoot consistent off hand. Saw a lot of people adjust sights to make up for poor fundamentals. Which leads to inconsistency.

[CPJ 2.0]

I’d like to try it, just to say I tried and see how humbling it would be.
There’s ZERO question however that I could shoot my bow better.

[Wambli Ska]

Bullseye pistol is a fantastic way to fine tune fundamentals. The skills gained in bullseye shooting translate well into other disciplines of shooting.

I can’t offer anything for service pistol or presidents type stuff. Not my game. I never shot sanctioned events. Only local matches that were match pistol, slow fire, 25 yard, B16 targets. Only difference being, we were allowed single shot pistols. I have a lot of money into TC Encore and Contender actions and custom barrels. For a game I don’t play any more.

Only thing I can offer is, wadcutters and SWC are your friend for cutting lines. Shoot A LOT! That’s the only way to build solid fundamentals. Thousands of rounds… And then thousands more.

If you’re going to go 1911, buy dummy rounds. When you go practice, have someone load your mags for you and put dummy rounds in randomly. You’ll see your mistakes.

YES!!! Still one of the best ways to see problems right away.