Guns & Outdoors Forum

I am a firm believer in teaching principles instead of techniques.

Know why we do what we do. Not just how we do it.

Hell, the experienced guy is only mentioned/quoted in the first two paragraphs or so.
Everything else is the authors article. I’m not even sure the cartridge choices are from the “expert” or just the author.

I would place more merit in an article written by the man with dirty hands.

Well my bad. Thought it might be interesting. Maybe I rushed and misunderstood the first paragraph, so just ignore then.

Hey, it’s a good advertisement for ammo. Of different usage. And the list could have been comprised by a school boy (of which I’m one). So……..it is what it is.

I just think the collective we have amazed here is smart enough to read between the lines and separate the wheat from the chaff.

:bragging:
We ARE the smartest and least KoolAid drinking forum on the www.

Turn your BS meter up.

Yep…

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 12:28 am Well my bad. Thought it might be interesting. Maybe I rushed and misunderstood the first paragraph, so just ignore then.

Hell, it’s a good discussion. It’s worth talking about

As a guide, for backup, I’d probably run my Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan in .375 Ruger. It’s the best for the elements and compact.

Solo fishing, hiking or such, my Ruger SRH Toklat in .454 Cas.

When it comes to a pissed off Grizzly, I don't think the caliber is as important as the gun. Make it something different than anyone else's, so when found, they will know it was you that got eaten.

I don't think anything short of a 12 gauge will be much help if it is already charging

Diver43 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 23, 2023 3:46 pm When it comes to a pissed off Grizzly, I don't think the caliber is as important as the gun. Make it something different than anyone else's, so when found, they will know it was you that got eaten.

I don't think anything short of a 12 gauge will be much help if it is already charging

I would submit that when comparing a Glock 19 with those deep-penetrating cast solids or 147gr FMJ's that give Castle conniptions vs. a Super Redhawk .454, the Glock has the following in it's favor:

It will end your suffering at the bear's hands just as quickly - and is probably easier to use for that application under duress.

It has more bullets to slow down your hunting "buddy" with a foot shot, and you can run faster with it due to its lighter weight.

It will hurt less when the bear beats you with it and proceeds to stuff it where the sun don't shine. I have recently revised this last with an addendum to advise that as firearm lubricants go, Ballistol is non-toxic and is reported to have some impressive capabilities as a disinfectant and wound care ointment, which may lead to fewer post-mauling complications than Break Free or Hoppe's.

Grizzly charge/handgun threads. . . Might as well discuss the merits of standing on railroad tracks with a stop sign vs. blowing a whistle with your palm out in the universal gesture for "halt". Standing on the pier next to an Iowa-class battleship while comparing the effects of large vs. small Nerf darts on the belt armor might prove equally instructive.

Remember that 300 Spartans merely DELAYED a million Persians. Y'all need to develop the proper sense of FUTILITY about these things!

So a G20 with 15 rounds of "less powerful" ammo (because foot pounds :rolleyes:) is worse than a 6 shot .357 because someone may limp wrist it.
If you cant shoot a 10mm without limp wristing it, a .357 isnt going to help you.


Get a shotgun, Man.


“If you wanna protect yourself get a double-barrel shotgun. Have the shells … a 12-gauge shotgun … and I promise you, as I told my wife, we live in an area that’s wooded and somewhat secluded. I said, Jill, if there’s ever a problem just walk out on the balcony here, just walk out … put that double barrel shotgun and fire two blasts.”

Haha!

Having never encountered an aggressive bear after many as in more than 50 sightings while on foot and a few very close I have no idea what it takes to stop one. Maybe nothing?

Leads me to the next question concerning kinetic energy which is 1/2 mass * velocity squared. if a high velocity low mass bullet enters and exits at high velocity the energy expended in the target is the difference between the entry energy and the exit energy. So why isn’t a slower but much heavier slug more effective? My whitetail hunting experience using a .44mag out of a Ruger sbh shot through every time. I never once recovered a slug. Federal 240 gr jhp was the goto ammo.

They didn’t buy an add.

Japhy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 24, 2023 2:36 am ...
Leads me to the next question concerning kinetic energy which is 1/2 mass * velocity squared. if a high velocity low mass bullet enters and exits at high velocity the energy expended in the target is the difference between the entry energy and the exit energy. So why isn’t a slower but much heavier slug more effective? My whitetail hunting experience using a .44mag out of a Ruger sbh shot through every time. I never once recovered a slug. Federal 240 gr jhp was the goto ammo.

Sounds like an efficiency question.

Who was it that said, "To hell with efficiency, give me Performance!"

Elmer Keith

I thought it was him but I wasn't sure. I think it was in response to Jack talking about the efficiency of the 270 cartridge.

Thanks.

shotgunshooter3 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 22, 2023 3:10 pm This will probably be an unpopular opinion around here, but IMO the best tool for bear defense is bear spray. Nothing is 100% obviously but a lot of fantasies about which sidearm to stop a bear work on the precarious assumption that the user will be able to hit a fist sized target bouncing towards them at breakneck speed, under stress, in time, after drawing from a less than ideally placed holster. A massive spicy cloud at high pressure is probably more likely to disrupt Yogi's attempt than a misplaced, or missed entirely, gunshot.

Of course, with that said, there's a reason in bear country hunting videos you usually see the guide carrying a gun as well. Kind of a different scenario when you're in a hunting party.

The problem with bear capsicum is to not spray yourself, which is quite possible. The wind has to be at your back or you'll get a good dose of capsicum. Add to that the relatively short range of pepper spray, and if the bear won't stop, it could lead to a melancholy situation. I have no idea on what's best, but feel whatever handgun you pack, it likely isn't enough. But it does give you advantage of distance if it doesn't stop the bear and give you a jump start on the footrace.

Gene L wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 2:25 am ...
it could lead to a melancholy situation. I have no idea on what's best, but feel whatever handgun you pack, it likely isn't enough.

I don't know about melancholy but the sudden, rapid onset and unmistakable feeling of needing to take a huge dump might be more in line with the situation.

So how many people in US lower 48 have encountered or even seen a grizzly? Or brown?
I have never seen a grizzly but many black bears.
I’ve never had a need for bear defense.

Japhy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 5:16 pm So how many people in US lower 48 have encountered or even seen a grizzly? Or brown?
I have never seen a grizzly but many black bears.
I’ve never had a need for bear defense.

She needed some bear defense, recently.


https://www.kwch.com/2023/07/24/derby-w ... utType=amp

Japhy wrote: ↑Tue Jul 25, 2023 5:16 pm So how many people in US lower 48 have encountered or even seen a grizzly? Or brown?
I have never seen a grizzly but many black bears.
I’ve never had a need for bear defense.

Black bear encounters and even attacks are relatively common in the mountains in NC. I had a muddy paw print in my front door to prove it.

People with dogs seem to be a preferred target. Some folks say the numbers are low, but that is when you compare them to the general population. When you start looking at the number of folks that actually get into the woods, the ratio starts getting more interesting, certainly not lotto level anymore.

I’ve run into two grizzlies and a mountain lion while living in Montana.