Guns & Outdoors Forum

sakodude wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 12:44 am Might be wrong but your CCW being concealed, on your body would it not be closer to body temp than ambient? I lived in the midwest quite a few years and don't recall my glasses fogging up getting out of the car. I am genuinely curious if this is really a concern.

I’m in MS and I wear glasses. It is not unusual for my glasses to fog up when I walk out of air conditioning into the summer heat and humidity here. Same with getting out of a vehicle.

Japhy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 11:39 pm Central US, its summer, 95 degrees, 90% humidity. Inside your vehicle the A/C is cranked to 65 degrees, ahhh feels good. You stop for gas, step out to unfriendlies, in the encounter you reach for your RDS equipped CCW, quickly bring it to eye level and what do you see? Dripping fog! Where are the irons? They have vanished in the haze along with the target.

Hi Japhy, like Sako said, the CC is much closer to body temp than the AC air in your car. I started working with mine in NC and it doesn’t get much more humid than that state. Fogging was never an issue.

My RDS equipped Ruger MKII is my goto fave for a run to the range. The RDS helped me get past a few subtle errors in my technique. So nothing against RDS I am a fanatical minimalist from too many years in the engineering business.

Japhy wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 3:11 am My RDS equipped Ruger MKII is my goto fave for a run to the range. The RDS helped me get past a few subtle errors in my technique. So nothing against RDS I am a fanatical minimalist from too many years in the engineering business.

I get it

I will say, the biggest problem I’ve had with my RDS has been aiming into the low sun. Mostly in the morning. The flare on the front glass sometimes washes out the target or gives me multiple “dots”.
I’ve had to resort to irons in a few instances because of this. Other times……pick a “dot”.

Zee wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 4:14 am I will say, the biggest problem I’ve had with my RDS has been aiming into the low sun. Mostly in the morning. The flare on the front glass sometimes washes out the target or gives me multiple “dots”.
I’ve had to resort to irons in a few instances because of this. Other times……pick a “dot”.

Interesting. I’ll have to try that

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:36 am

Zee wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 4:14 am I will say, the biggest problem I’ve had with my RDS has been aiming into the low sun. Mostly in the morning. The flare on the front glass sometimes washes out the target or gives me multiple “dots”.
I’ve had to resort to irons in a few instances because of this. Other times……pick a “dot”.

Interesting. I’ll have to try that

It’s very important, I’ve found, to keep your glass clean. But, even clean, the front glare (much like a powered rifle scope) proves a nemesis.

Zee wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:52 am

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:36 am

Zee wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 4:14 am I will say, the biggest problem I’ve had with my RDS has been aiming into the low sun. Mostly in the morning. The flare on the front glass sometimes washes out the target or gives me multiple “dots”.
I’ve had to resort to irons in a few instances because of this. Other times……pick a “dot”.

Interesting. I’ll have to try that

It’s very important, I’ve found, to keep your glass clean. But, even clean, the front glare (much like a powered rifle scope) proves a nemesis.

I’m pretty fanatical about clean glass. I keep a clean microfiber rag and some Q-Tips on my nightstand to get the lint out of my RDS. But I never considered the shooting into low sun as a potential issue. This sounds like an early run to try some targets to see what I see through my Holosun. I hate surprises. Thanks for bringing that one up

Zee wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:52 am

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 5:36 am

Zee wrote: ↑Fri Mar 08, 2024 4:14 am I will say, the biggest problem I’ve had with my RDS has been aiming into the low sun. Mostly in the morning. The flare on the front glass sometimes washes out the target or gives me multiple “dots”.
I’ve had to resort to irons in a few instances because of this. Other times……pick a “dot”.

Interesting. I’ll have to try that

It’s very important, I’ve found, to keep your glass clean. But, even clean, the front glare (much like a powered rifle scope) proves a nemesis.

All of the above is what got me off of open emitter sights. It was either the Holosun 507 on the 17 or the 507K on the 48 that ended up collecting an even coat of CCW lint on the back of the glass inside the "sugar scoop". It wasn't even a problem until I tried shooting with the morning sun to my front, at which point all the lint particles lit up white and effectively "fogged" out the view through the sight.

It's hard to keep the inside of that sugar scoop clean without a ready supply of compressed air and Q-tips, so now it's 509T on the big guns and EPS Carry on the little ones.

Japhy is right in that these sights (and I will add their mounting systems) are not yet at the point of being truly "military grade", but Zee is right in that they ARE at a point of being "durable enough" (at least the better ones) for the benefits to outweigh the drawbacks.

The Mauser 98, AK-47, 1911, and Glock are all examples of technology that evolved over 600+ years of fighting wars with guns to keep working even after being abused in harsh conditions by the dumbest rock of a human you can find to give it to. Mini pistol red dots have really only had about a decade - we're gonna get there.

Japhy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:00 am We will know ACRO RDS are ready for prime time when they come with milled groves for an improved grip in foul conditions.

Next question
What is the typical temp range for RDS?
What about condensing humidity
I have a Holosun haven’t looked it up but MIL spec it ain’t

I've shot my c-mores and delta point from the teens tor 110 humid degrees. Rain and shine. Never an issue. Eotech had a problem when going from indoors to outdoors in very cold Temps but they recalled them all and since fixed the problem.

Witnessed a RDS hard fail today.
SW M&P 9mm (115gr range loads) integral RDS mount failed RDS hitting shooter in the face. No injuries due to the required safety glasses. A closer look at the slide revealed tell tale oblong mounting holes. A screw found showed remnants of blue thread locker but severely sheared. This happened with less than 1000 rds and was installed per torque specs. Repair will most likely require a new slide and even then the problem will recur. The only possible solution is to engineer RDS mounts that eliminates all vertical fasteners.
No EDC slide mount RDS for me

Japhy wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 1:39 am Witnessed a RDS hard fail today.
SW M&P 9mm (115gr range loads) integral RDS mount failed RDS hitting shooter in the face. No injuries due to the required safety glasses. A closer look at the slide revealed tell tale oblong mounting holes. A screw found showed remnants of blue thread locker but severely sheared. This happened with less than 1000 rds and was installed per torque specs. Repair will most likely require a new slide and even then the problem will recur. The only possible solution is to engineer RDS mounts that eliminates all vertical fasteners.
No EDC slide mount RDS for me

Did you hear that guys? They will fail!
Run... to....the... hiiilllllllllssssss, run for your liiii eye ife!


So. Lets have pics and details rather than anecdotes. Who said it was per torque specs? What do you mean by "integral mount"? A milled slide? You described the level of sheared, even though....it is..... or it aint.

Japhy wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 1:39 am Witnessed a RDS hard fail today.
SW M&P 9mm (115gr range loads) integral RDS mount failed RDS hitting shooter in the face. No injuries due to the required safety glasses. A closer look at the slide revealed tell tale oblong mounting holes. A screw found showed remnants of blue thread locker but severely sheared. This happened with less than 1000 rds and was installed per torque specs. Repair will most likely require a new slide and even then the problem will recur. The only possible solution is to engineer RDS mounts that eliminates all vertical fasteners.
No EDC slide mount RDS for me

I'm absolutely with you on that concept, but MMMMMMMMMMMM. . .maybe not quite exactly. . .

The trick is to either have a direct mount of an optic with a footprint that exactly fits into the cut of the slide, or to install an adapter plate that exactly fits the cut of the slide that possesses a socket that exactly fits the footprint of the optic. That's going to take the shear forces of recoil off the screws and apply them to the slide.

The whole "per specs" thing is getting a little bit complex. For example, a lot of the Holosuns and Trijicons share the same footprint, but are different thicknesses. I just mounted up one or the other on a C&H plate that came with three slightly different lengths of screw to address that issue, but it required a pre-fit of the optic to the plate prior to mounting the plate to the slide in order to confirm I was assembling the right combo.

Add to that the chances of whatever hardware you buy coming with too short screws (seen it), or the install being done by Bubba. The existing systems work, but we ain't at Marine-Proof yet.

Buy once, cry once.

Spec meant the screws were torqued to the instructions. I had borrowed the torque wrench when I put a Holosun on my Ruger mkii.
Any mounting hardware that is perpendicular to the slide is going to see the same shear force. A better solution is a mount that attaches using screws in the same direction as the slide movement.
My next is going to be a 4.x in barrel 45ACP for carry without a rds. Havent decided exactly what yet test drove glock today.

Any correctly cut slide will have no shear force, because the RDS can’t move.

Zee wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 3:34 amBuy once, cry once.

Buy "right" cry once...

Quick question, not too many of those sights around here to get to look at first hand. I'm strongly considering milling the slide on my Wilson Combat for an RDS. It's a stupidly accurate gun and I figure with an RDS I could pretty effortlessly send well placed shots at well over 100 yards with it. And if I'm doing this I want the best RDS out there, and this seems to fit the bill.

BUT, I think it MIGHT be , I don't know, "weird" looking, for lack of a better way of expressing it, on the slim frame of a 1911. Seems like it's a pretty wide piece of gear.

Thoughts?

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 1:49 am

Zee wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 3:34 amBuy once, cry once.

Buy "right" cry once...

Quick question, not too many of those sights around here to get to look at first hand. I'm strongly considering milling the slide on my Wilson Combat for an RDS. It's a stupidly accurate gun and I figure with an RDS I could pretty effortlessly send well placed shots at well over 100 yards with it. And if I'm doing this I want the best RDS out there, and this seems to fit the bill.

BUT, I think it MIGHT be , I don't know, "weird" looking, for lack of a better way of expressing it, on the slim frame of a 1911. Seems like it's a pretty wide piece of gear.

Thoughts?

I have had the same thoughts as you. A quick look at Google images shows that while not what we are used to, it's not too bad.

Cutting a boojie 1911 for an RDS?
OH HELL YEAH.

Went through an RDS Instructor Course last week. Now I have that and the armorers course on file.
Gotta teach the other salesmen.

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 3:11 am Cutting a boojie 1911 for an RDS?
OH HELL YEAH.

It's by far the most accurate 1911, actually, the most accurate handgun I own. Why not...

But if I decide to do it, I'm doing it right.

Diver43 wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 2:34 am

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 1:49 am

Zee wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 3:34 amBuy once, cry once.

Buy "right" cry once...

Quick question, not too many of those sights around here to get to look at first hand. I'm strongly considering milling the slide on my Wilson Combat for an RDS. It's a stupidly accurate gun and I figure with an RDS I could pretty effortlessly send well placed shots at well over 100 yards with it. And if I'm doing this I want the best RDS out there, and this seems to fit the bill.

BUT, I think it MIGHT be , I don't know, "weird" looking, for lack of a better way of expressing it, on the slim frame of a 1911. Seems like it's a pretty wide piece of gear.

Thoughts?

I have had the same thoughts as you. A quick look at Google images shows that while not what we are used to, it's not too bad.

Define not bad...

I might wait until someone puts out a slimmer version of the damn thing if it sticks out the sides too much. That's what held me up on the 48. I wanted close miter and a slimer profile than what's out there.

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 3:22 am

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 3:11 am Cutting a boojie 1911 for an RDS?
OH HELL YEAH.

It's by far the most accurate 1911, actually, the most accurate handgun I own. Why not...

But if I decide to do it, I'm doing it right.

Oh 100%.
I just want to watch the boomer purists weep.

Wambli Ska wrote: ↑Fri May 10, 2024 1:49 am

Zee wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2024 3:34 amBuy once, cry once.

Buy "right" cry once...

Quick question, not too many of those sights around here to get to look at first hand. I'm strongly considering milling the slide on my Wilson Combat for an RDS. It's a stupidly accurate gun and I figure with an RDS I could pretty effortlessly send well placed shots at well over 100 yards with it. And if I'm doing this I want the best RDS out there, and this seems to fit the bill.

BUT, I think it MIGHT be , I don't know, "weird" looking, for lack of a better way of expressing it, on the slim frame of a 1911. Seems like it's a pretty wide piece of gear.

Thoughts?

Just for sake of scale. . .

Holosun 509T is a little wider than a 1911's slide, but still fits within the overall existing width of GI grips or the typical modern ambi oversize thumb safeties.

Holosun EPS is a slightly better fit aesthetically.

The new Trijicon RMR HD is a pretty good match. Hangs forward over the ejection port slightly, but not a functional problem on the couple of 9mm 2011's I've installed them on.