Guns & Outdoors Forum

Since I have a CVA break action in .350L I decided to start playing with the cartridge again. I threw together some test loads using Lil'Gun and Hornady 170 grain interlock bullets. To say I was surprised would be an understatement. I used a combination of Quick Load data and Hornady published data. My Quick Load data had a lower max charge than Hornady book data and well below Hodgdon data. My 5 test loadings were in 1/2 gr increments which is a bigger jump than I would normally do with a small cartridge like this. My top load was 2 gr below Hornady max and 1.5 gr below Hodgdon start charge. Hornady and Hodgdon use a 16" barrel and my CVA has a 20" barrel. Now that we have that information out of the way. Here are my admittedly small sample size velocity findings.

23.6gr. 2259 fps, 2270 fps
24.1gr. 2331 fps, 2344 fps
24.6gr. 2333 fps, 2389 fps
25.1gr. 2411 fps, 2455 fps
25.5gr. 2481 fps, 2487 fps

I was using CCI #400 primers and they were quite flat. I knew after the first shot that things were on the hot side, but for science information gathering I kept going while paying attention. I will be pulling the remaining rounds apart as well as I am uncomfortable continuing even attempting shots for groups. The first load I tried for grouping left a 4" string at 50 yards anyways.

Has anyone else played with Lil'Gun in a similar type of cartridge? What have those experiences been like? I'm thinking of trying some 300-MP or IMR 4227 instead. I'm not sure I could stuff enough 4227 in it to have pressure issues, but I could be wrong.

On a side note, I did shoot some early factory Hornady ammunition in it. It did make a 3 shot 50 yards group under an inch but was also running around 2350 fps when the box only claims 2200 fps. I also had some issues with ventilated primers on a few of the shots. I know this was a complaint with early Hornady factory ammunition in this cartridge though. I picked up another box to try at the range next time.

My main plan for this rifle is to have a ready to use back up with me for deer season. I have had issues with scopes the last couple seasons and hope I don't need a back up this year.

I so wish theyd used a .358cal bullet.

That makes all least two of us. In my previous attempts I found that Speer 180gr .358 bullets sized down to .356 worked really well. I may try those in in this CVA and see if they perform well on paper. I have shot .358" bullets from a 77/357 before, and as far as I can come up with .357/.38 use the same bore and groove diameters as .350l. The unsized Speer 180 bullets have a max OAL that is about 0.020" shorter than the ones sized to .356.

This is my backup In case I have issues with the little .458 again. Last season I scrambled to swap the scope and get zeroed toward the end of season so that I didn't have to cut my woods time short. The season before was cut short due to the same issue. Two seasons in a row with a fogged scope. It was sent in for repair after both times and has not made it back into a gun since the last repair. I just don't trust it.

What brand of scope went south on you?

Leupold. Same scope two years in a row. Apparently the first repair didn't correct the issue. I'm not trying to make excuses for the scope, but recoil is on the upper end of what I can tolerate for more than a few rounds. 8lb 4oz rifle flinging a 350gr bullet at 2100 fps gets your attention. According to shooterscalculator.com it is around 34.33 ft-lbs of recoil energy.

December 2021


November 2022

My .430 SJS is similar speed, in a less than 7 pound rifle. It’s “brisk”.
Destroyed a 4-14-ish scope I can’t recall. And a bushnell red dot.

CPJ 2.0 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 08, 2023 12:36 am My .430 SJS is similar speed, in a less than 7 pound rifle. It’s “brisk”.
Destroyed a 4-14-ish scope I can’t recall. And a bushnell red dot.

If I remember correctly, your SJS has more recoil than the legend.

I believe mitdr's "scope killer" is his "sawed off" 458.

458x1.5" maybe

.458x1.8". In all reality its driving bullets about as fast as a .45/70 lever gun should be able to. Recoil is sharp, but overall less than my .458wm that I just dont shoot much as I have no reason to punish myself like that anymore.

The .430 SJS for sure has more recoil than a .350L. The .350 has very mild recoil compared to most center fire cartridges out there. I dont know if it could ever kill a scope unless you put the cheapest of cheap scopes on a .350.

My bigger concern is book load data that is potentially very unsafe. Im having a hard time understanding how another 2gr of powder above where I decided it wasnt worth the risk to even try to get velocity numbers, could possibly not result is a failure of some sort. Book calls for WSR primers and I used CCI #400. In my experience the WSR primers flatten at much lower pressures than the CCI #400 does, and I didnt have any primers that were not flat. All velocities recorded were well above book suggested velocities. I dont have the book infront of me right now but memory suggests that Hornady claims 2300 fps in a 16" barrel when using 27.5 gr of Lil'Gun. Based on an assumption of 25 fps per inch (this is based on results that have been posted in other places with the .350L, but I have not confirmed myself) the book top load should have been about 2400 fps. A full 2gr below book max and I was already at 2480 fps. This is not the first time I have had issues with Lil'Gun load data, but I was really hopeful that the data would have been decent for once.

In my experience, Li'l gun can vary GREATLY by lots.
The 8# keg I have is a "Hot" one as well. Using a "Safe" book load in my 300BO, I had my first blown primer.

In my 50 Beowulf, "the load" with Li'l Gun and 335gr Rainier HP (AA only lists a load, no starting or max, just "the load") was showing extreme signs of pressure, I had to drop it 1.5gr

Im thinking 300-MP or IMR 4227 will ultimately be my best options. W296 has been spotty in the little .458 and I have some concerns about such a long column of powder consistently igniting. I have no experience with 300-MP yet, but have heard some favorable reviews of it.

If I use the little .458 as an example to compare W296 and 4227 I can expect slower but more consistent velocities with 4227. Using my loads as an example 42gr of 4227 runs around 2100 fps with some mild deviation in velocity while 42.2gr of W296 runs around 2200 fps with about a 100 fps spread over a 5 shot average. This is with a Speer 350gr bullet.

Lil'Gun might be off the table for most use for quite a while I think.

I've just accepted that the lot I have is "hotter" than most book loads and start accordingly.
I still use it in quite a few loads
300BO
50 Beowulf
heavy bullets in 357 and 44 mags

I plan on leaving it for .357 and .44 for now. I did dabble with it in my .300 BO when I had it, but since I do not currently have a .300 BO that option is on hold.

Im planning a range trip with my dad tomorrow, so I may throw together some loads to even see if they are an option.

Sounds like a plan.
I've found the Rx7 works in a lot of the same areas, rifle wise. Some lack data, but it's not that hard to figure it out.

I believe I have a pound of RL-7 and that powder is also in QuickLoad. I may have to look into that one as well. For now Im going to just see how the newer production factory ammunition will perform. This is a back up rifle anyways. I need to spend more time working on loads next year. Work got in the way too much again this year.

It hurt to do, but I picked up a couple boxes of Winchester 150gr XP to test out. I had an old box of the 150 XP, a couple boxes of the Win 180 PP, and a couple boxes of the Hornady 170 IL. This is a solid 50 yard gun with factory ammunition. It can be pushed further, but at 100 yards the groups start looking a bit crap. Where I nap in the woods anything past about 50 yards would be a big gamble that I am unlikely to take. Its just too much junk in the way that you cant really see in a scope. For this year, this will have to suffice for my back up. Maybe next year I will actually work up a good load for it.

Velocity results
150 XP 2240 fps
180 PP 2100 fps
170 IL 2320 fps

50 yard followed 100 yard targets.

150 XP
180 PP
170 IL